…has been fired: http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19218
lasted a couple of issues longer than his run on X-men. I guess he had a decent run on Captain America a while back (never read it), but I can’t help feeling his style really doesn’t suit Marvel (although these days, I’m not sure Marvel has a distinct style).
Wow, I can’t wait for the new Fantastic Four.
The Fantastics vs. the Joneses. Young Doom Jones got a brand-spanking new Corvette which is killing the Torch’s Mustang. And the old man of the family, Galactus Jones, is digging through the city archive, trying to find the old land sale papers to claim 6" of Reed’s yard along with his award-winning roses.
Ugh. I’ve been enjoying Waid’s FF.
And Jemas? WTF? Marville #1 was perhaps the worst mainstream comic ever published. Where did Jemas get the impression he should be writing comics? He has a corporation to run.
Hell, Marville #1 was worse than Graphimaximo…
His Namor was terrible too. He’s definitely a fanboy who is abusing his position to impose his writing on the world, but it can’t last, since he is truly untalented.
Kooky, someone on Bendis’ forum last Saturday posted about how Waid was just fired, and that would be making the comic news sites pretty soon. Her prophetic post is here.
She’s also claiming even bigger insider Marvel fucked-upness info sometime soon.
Some people are wondering if this is related to Waid’s rumored ending for “Unthinkable”, where SPOILER [color=white]Doom supposedly kills Franklin Richards[/color], where Marvel would be trying to downplay such a shocking and “unthinkable” ending.
Oh well. This just means Waid can put more thought into his awesome Empire series. Huzzah for creator-owned!
There’s also the possibility of this being a huge PR stunt.
“I wish I’d had a longer run, and I’ll admit I was surprised at being so abruptly fired,” Waid said. “A few weeks ago, Bill phoned and tried to convince me to jettison our high-adventure approach and everything else we’ve been doing in favor of making the FF a wacky suburban dramedy where Reed’s a nutty professor who creates amazing but impractical inventions, Sue’s the office-temp breadwinner, the cranky neighbor is their new ‘arch-enemy’, etc.”
<boggle>
The FF gets exciting for the first time in over a decade – and Jemas thinks they need that sort of new direction. Jeez, even the much-maligned Jim Shooter had better story sense than that…
Sorry.
Franklin stuck in hell? Leather armor Doom? A goofy Reed Richards + Personality-free Invisible Girl? I’m disappointed that Waid never did do the Adventurer thing he claimed he was doing. Every story took place on Earth, except the side trip to Latveria. I was expecting Swiss Family Robinson meets Kirby’s old Challenger’s of the Unknown and got… crap.
Again, find the old Byrne stuff or the Lee/Kirby days for The World’s Greatest Comic Magazine. They should get Busiek, he nailed the FF with his Astro City Furst Family homage/story arc. How much more “adventure family” can you get than three adult superbeings pounding all their arch-enemies frantically looking for the youngest member of the team (who has disappeared)? Only to find she’s “run off” to experience what public school and hopscotch are like. Fun stuff.
Not that this new direction sounds any better. Why did Marvel do it? Hmmm… Let me guess… Sales sucked?
Waid’s run has boosted FF sales from about 40k to 50-55k issues every month, which isn’t too bad for a comic that has neither the words"Ultimate", “Spider-Man,” “Batman”, nor “Wolverine” (keeps it consistently in the Top 25 out of 300 titles) in the title. If they really just wanted to boost sales, they could have just left his run alone and retitled it “Ultimate FF.”
It’s when a mainstream title move 20-25k issues that the Powers That Be cancel it due to low sales.
Oho! Now that makes this story more interesting.
Andrew, he just got started. I hated the first issue, all that reboot stuff. But it was getting better, at least for me, even with the usual NuMarvel drag-the-plot-into-nothingness-for-the-TPB crap. And that comment from Waid is insane. Jemas wants the FF to be a goofball sitcom? WTF? I’d like to believe this to be a PR stunt, too, but it fits in with the way that they made the Ultimate FF ridiculous back in the group’s Ultimate MTU appearance. I can believe that Jemas would want to do this. No matter what shape the book takes, though, Jemas writing it will halve sales in a couple of months. Maybe Marvel wants the book to die. It’ll hit #500, and maybe that’s all Marvel wants before the FF goes Ultimate. In the meantime, I’ll offer additional prayers that Quesada and Jemas get fired. Soon.
And Busiek’s style doesn’t mesh at all with NuMarvel. It’d be great to see the guy on FF, although the chances are pretty slim. He was the last writer doing old-school Marvel with Avengers. Y’know, superhero books with real superheroes in real costumes. Don’t see much of that through the rest of Marvel these days aside from ASM and the undreadable PP. Well, Waid was trying to do that, and look what happened to him. Dammit, we need less FF in the FF, Mark!
If Marvel would publish regular issues of Essentials, I’d dump all the new books, maybe with the exception of ASM. None of them are anything like they used to be. No continuity beyond a few issues. No character development. No sense of adventure and heroism. Each issue is a self-contained action movie without the action, with moody scene-setting and snappy dialogue. It’s so shallow, even compared to the depths of the melodrama that Marvel descended to in the early- to mid-1970s Gil Kane era.
Um… “Just Got Started”? He did three story arcs.
Aside from Hulk, which I’m done with as of this month (I don’t like the way the story jumped from a cool showdown with the Abomination in Nevada to a mind-controlling Absorbing Man in NY- it felt like, as Brett notes, a fresh start-TPB moment - they also switched artists. From gritty to goofy and I’m not pleased about that either), I don’t read any superhero comics regularly, aside from Masterworks and Archive collections (and Astro City). Did you know that early Plastic Man was much, much, better than early Wonder Woman?
Anyway, maybe that’s why you like FF (aside from that first issue) and I didn’t like it (aside from that first issue). You’re hungry for that old Marvel style Brett, so you’re happy just to see someone practicing it because you miss it. I wasn’t even aware it was gone, so I’m only comparing it to the old stuff I remember. I didn’t think it compared well, frankly. The stories were rushed, no character development or feeling, just superficial characterization and cheap puns. No real love for the characters.
This is why I in general stay away from Marvel. I’ll get my comic kicks from Extraordinary Gentlemen, Strangers in Paradise, Rising Stars (maybe), Girl Genius and the occasional DC or Marvel.
Joe Q spin control:
The FF, Mark Waid, Bill Jemas & the Internet
Dear Comics Fans,
I’ve been busy as hell of late and found my life much more enjoyable these
last few months that I’ve avoided Internet message boards, but sometimes
things get so out of hand that issues just need to be addressed and tackled
head on.First off, regarding Mark Waid’s exit from the FANTASTIC FOUR (pretty much
the only part of this ‘story’ that’s completely accurate). Let me preface
this by saying that Mark and I have been friends for years and years and I
expect that that relationship won’t change over this creative decision. Mark
is one of the most talented guys in the business and I have the utmost
respect for what he does, but his departure from FF is now being siphoned
through inaccuracies, mistaken impressions and hardcore enthusiasts
inability to wait for the whole, real story before slitting their proverbial
wrists and launching profanity-ridden grenades. Hey, what the heck, it’s so
much more fun to be angry at Marvel even with only half the story.Over a month ago Bill Jemas asked for a change of direction for the FF
monthly title … business as usual and no different than asking for a
costume change, a change of cast or story line. As President, it’s Bill’s
right and responsibility to call for changes as he feels will benefit any
Marvel title just as it is mine. This is not the first time such changes
have been asked for and I certainly hope it won’t be the last.Bill called up Mark and asked him personally to steer the book towards a new
vision and Mark made it clear that it wasn’t a direction that he felt he
wanted to write in or was comfortable with. That in turn is Mark’s right and
responsibility as a creator - if it’s not his cup of tea and if he can’t
bring his “A” game to a project then that’s okay, no harm no foul. I respect
Mark for making his decision as I respect Bill for giving Mark the first
crack at the new storyline.Mark has also been given every opportunity to work on other books here at
Marvel.But like with every creative change at Marvel, this change has been met with
much “fanfare” and fear. Let me assure the fans that while Mark will be
missed, the high quality standard of FF stories that Mark and company have
set, will continue.As for Bill Jemas writing the monthly FANTASTIC FOUR title, and the “wacky
suburban dramedy” description, with all due respect to Mark, neither is
accurate. A new FF writer will be announced shortly, but it won’t be written
by Bill and won’t be as described. Everyone getting upset and angry over
this are getting upset and angry over nothing … or in other words,
business as usual. I’m in no way saying that Mark is misleading the fans,
only that he may be mixing up stories he’s heard and judging the new
direction on what was a very initial pitch that was circulated over a month
ago.Furthermore, this isn’t a cost saving measure nor is it some flight of
fancy. This is a change in direction for a Marvel title requested by the man
who schemed the Ultimate Universe, had the guts to tell Origin and turned
Marvel’s publishing business around in less than two years. But hey, what
does he know. Yes, Bill is indeed working on an FF-related concept, but then
so am I, along with a couple of Marvel’s top creators and perhaps that’s
where the stories get mixed up … but more on that when the time is right.Finally, I want to get to all of the anti-Epic garbage that has been hitting
the streets. It seems that there are those that feel that perhaps the best
way to get accepted by Epic is to scare off anyone who wants to submit.
Think about it, put out some nasty rumors that this is all some evil plot by
Bill, that there are 3000 submissions gathering dust, that the editors
aren’t reading pitches and the fewer people that submit, the better the
chances of those that are already through the door. Epic is no more nor
less than what we’ve stated from the beginning. We feel that there is a
wealth of undiscovered talent out there in need of a break. We honestly
feel that there are stories out there that need to be told that are just
looking for the right opportunity. If you believe all of this Epic
conspiracy nonsense, then you’re falling into a horrible trap.See ya in the funnybooks,
JQ
I’ll bet that they wanted the FF comic book to go towards a similar direction that the FF movie is going to be. The Spiderman movie is probably the only reason that MJ was allowed to be a regular character again.
Really? Wow. It didn’t seem that long. So little happens in Marvel books these days, I guess seven or eight issues seem like one.
You’re probably right. I should dump my whole pull list. I’m really not enjoying any of the Marvel stuff anymore. I’m already halfway out the door, in that I’m taking weeks to pick my books up at the store now and getting my comic fix re-reading Essentials. I’ve got to properly catalogue all my back issues and start reading those next.
That’s exactly my view of Mark Waid’s writing in general, and why his brief stint on the X-men was such a disaster (in a period of disastrous X-men runs).
My feelings on Quesada/Jemas are mixed – I hate the orientation around TPBs, but that’s more of a market phenomenon that they are actually finally allowed Marvel to respond to (Marvel TPB program was getting killed previously) in the marketplace. They’ve also done a good job at moving beyond “superhero” books, and bringing in some good writers who otherwise would have never come/returned to marvel.
But I dislike the lack of continuity and “universe congruity”, and overriding editorial control of writers they don’t like, such as Claremont, while their buddies like Frank Tieri are given carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want, in spite of producing much worse selling books.
Can’t Marvel balance things off? I mean, just because they want self-contained TPBs, does that mean that books can’t have supporting casts? That the stories can’t even be referred to later on? Does everything have to be forgotten as soon as it’s over, no matter how momentous? Marvel books are really starting to resemble old DC ones, in that the stories seem completely isolated, with nothing carrying over from one month to the next.
One of the things I always loved about Marvel (and conversely, the lack of this was the main reason I never got into DC) was the way its superhero books took place in a world that was pretty similar to our own. You’d get pop-culture references, etc. that grounded the books, made them more accessible and familiar. It also dated them (I just finished re-reading the Essential ASMs, and some of the lines are hilarious today – “Gwendy, we’ve got just enough time to listen to Jesus Christ Superstar!” “I’m as popular around here as Mao!”), but who the hell cares? Does everything need to take place right now? One of the best things about the old Marvel is that the books stand up today as artifacts of their time.
The lines I cited above, Peter’s groovy threads, and even the awful hipcat dialogue (did people really call everybody “Dad” in 1968?) make the books more memorable, not less. Will anyone remember the current, faceless Marvel books in forty years? Four? Ultimate books are more memorable, with more of a connection to today, although the stories are still so self-contained that there’s no sense of a new, updated Marvel Universe being created. Which I think is necessary for Marvel to really get somewhere with the Ultimate line. Marvel’s sacrificing a hell of a lot for immediate success in the TPB market. Maybe that’s necessary to keep the business afloat right now, but man, I think this will prove disastrous down the road.
It’s not exactly a wild success right now, either, considering that Marvel is still at about the same sales level at is was before the current movie boom. It seems pretty sad that Marvel’s been unable to capitalize on all this free publicity. Hell, the 25-cent Incredible Hulk released this month to coincide with the release of the movie didn’t even feature the Hulk. Brilliant marketing, guys!
Over a month ago Bill Jemas asked for a change of direction for the FF monthly title … business as usual and no different than asking for a
costume change, a change of cast or story line. As President, it’s Bill’s
right and responsibility to call for changes as he feels will benefit any
Marvel title just as it is mine. This is not the first time such changes
have been asked for and I certainly hope it won’t be the last.
This bothers me. It shouldn’t, because of course Marvel needs to protect it’s valuable commodities from, well, bad writers, but on principal this makes me so much less interested in reading comics. Waid, love him or hate him, has earned reputation enough to gain a certain amount of freedom. Hire Waid to do FF and, like it or not, you should get “Waid’s FF”. Editorial draconian policy is understandable in the review/editorial business but should be excercised as little as possible in a creative medium. Sure, you gain control and can protect Spider-Man from bad ideas, but you lose what an unrestrained creator can bring to the character and book.
So, Joe Queseda, I really do hope it will be the last.
I had a similar problem with that $0.25 X-Men a while back. Not really a good jumping on point (“Mommy? Why are the X-Men crucified?”). That Namor one was pretty cool though, nice reboot. Didn’t make me pick up the next one, but I liked it.
From the Warren Ellis “Bad Signal” email newsletter today:
I dunno. I used to know Mark. He’s
been humped by Marvel two or
three times previous to this. If
you keep going back to a place
where they fuck you in the arse
with spiky metal things, then after
a while people will simply assume
you like it. It’s kind of a non-story.
Warren’s awfully full of himself, but he’s a crack-up.
Edit (fixed url): Look who’s back, back again: http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=187d36ec88cebf46a8f33e949f8fd9d2&threadid=22228