Timex
2770
If the kid had a gun in his hands and turns around, I can understand that causing a cop to shoot him. I mean, the cop didn’t see freeze frames, it all happened in fractions of a second.
He didn’t, tho. By the time he turned around, he had already ditched the gun behind the fence, so he was of no danger.
KevinC
2772
Then why not just gun him down in the back instead of ordering him to stop/put his hands up?
Menzo
2773
Because shooting a black kid in the back has a slightly higher chance of causing you to go to prison. Not much higher, but a little.
Timex
2774
Serious answer:
Because if he’s running away, he’s not a direct threat to you.
If he turns to face you, then he is.
And let’s be clear here… while a kid getting shot is tragic, a kid carrying a firearm is in fact a deadly threat.
The cop was using a tactical flashlight set on strobe.
You know how strobes create a stop-motion effect? Kid dropped the gun when it strobe was off.
Why the fuck was the cop using a strobe effect?
Put another way, once the cop thinks he’s seen a gun, the kid cannot comply with the cop’s orders without being shot. He must keep running, because if he drops the gun and turns to raise his hands and surrender he will be justifiably shot. That’s what you’re saying. It’s absurd.
Timex
2777
The way to not get shot in that situation would be to throw the gun away, well before turning around.
If drop the gun while turning around, if the cop doesn’t see the gun leave your hand (and given the fact that it was less than a second, I cannot expect any reasonable person to assume the cop would be aware of that), then it’s reasonable for him to assume that you are still armed, since he saw that you were armed when you started turning around.
Or, we could train our cops to not shoot immediately after any movement, and give the person a chance to comply.
Timex
2779
In this kind of situation, I feel like that may not be reasonable.
If someone turns on you with a firearm, then they can kill you in a fraction of a second. That dramatically reduces your options without putting yourself in mortal danger.
To be clear, there are situations which fit into what you are suggesting. Cases where cops have the luxury of taking the time to deescalate. But a situation where someone has a gun in their hand is often not going to be one of them.
What about just treating it like any other situation where someone shoots someone else?
I feel like @Timex I arguing that all people that carry guns should be shot, because they can pose a threat.
Personal, I wouldn’t be so against it if that rule wasn’t specific applied exclusively to only black and brown people.
Timex
2782
No, but if you have a pistol, in your hand, while you are already committing a crime and fleeing from police, then you are likely to get shot.
I think it’s a strawman to say that’s the same thing as simply carrying a weapon, legally.
If you drop the pistol, you still get shot.
So, the outcome is that the police should have the right to carry out the death penalty when ever they feel like it?
Timex
2784
No, if you start to turn and face the police while holding the gun, you get shot.
I think that’s an important point that maybe some folks aren’t aware of here… The kid did not drop the gun and then turn around. He had the gun in his hand when he started to turn.
You guys know that I’ve been more than willing to criticize cops for shootings, very recently. But that doesn’t mean that every shooting by a cop is unjustified.
He dropped the gun didn’t he?
Timex
2786
From video footage, it looks like he had the gun in his hand when he started to turn. The time between it leaving his hand and him getting shot are fractions of a second.
As I said, it seems like from the officer’s perspective, the kid was still armed when he started to turn to face him.
This is ok. This is part of the job of being a cop. Putting yourself in mortal danger in order to protect citizens. Even if those citizens happen to be suspected criminals.
Is there any video evidence of him having a gun, because I’m not one to believe any shit cops say in these matters.
This is crap. The “hands up” position is fundamentally different to a firing position. Even if there was a gun in the kid’s hand at the time that he was shot, he was in no position to fire it anywhere near the cop. The cop fired before he gave himself time to think, or the kid to surrender.
Yes, these are split second decisions. So what? If a cop isn’t trained well enough, or is emotionally incapable of self-restraint in high-stress situations, then he shouldn’t be pointing a gun at a citizen. And often, the cause of these situations where cops have to make split-second decisions or “fear for their lives” is the shitty tactical decisions they made in the first place. Tamir Rice died, just like this kid, because the officers involved made sure that everything happened as fast as possible and at as close range as possible, and your defense for the decision to shoot is that they had a split second to decide. Well, that’s where they put themselves. And they made sure it was someone else who paid the price for their poor decision-making.
