6295

Those surgical masks are designed to prevent droplets from spreading to other people, not the other way round. They are not effective according to science and can actually be harmful when used outside of that scope. This is information put out by several health and science organization, top ranked in the world type stuff. The people we’re counting on to try and come up with vaccines and treatments.

The less sexy, doesn’t try to make people run out desperately looking for products that can’t be purchased and are desperately needed by healthcare workers and people who are actually sick is that many of the East Asian cultures are communal based, while the other countries are individualistic. Aka, when the government tells them to do something, they actually do it, for the good of the country, instead of calculating how many deaths are acceptable and deep down somehow believing noone they really care about will be part of that number.

6296

Cuomo today:

Whole stream, not just the 3 minutes about parks.

6297

Right, but if there are lots of asymptomatic people walking around, having everyone wear a mask might make a difference if you have enough masks ( which we don’t, so safe them for healthcare workers)

6298
6299

There are two arguments - that wearing masks doesn’t help, or that wearings masks by civilians depletes the supply available to health care workers.

One, I hate to say this, but a priori i have a hard time believing that wearing any sort of mask, even non-surgical grade, has no effect on the spread in both directions to/from. It may not be signficant but i’d have a hard time believing the value was 0; otherwise i’m not sure what the point of using them would be at all.

The second argument uses the first argument as its justification. I’m entirely sympathetic to the second argument, if it can be shown that civilians using these masks depletes or diverts the actual medical supply. But I don’t like justifying the second argument by referencing the first, not the least of which reason is that the first is both weaker (imo) and leans into pre-existing social biases, which are reinforced - perhaps wrongly - by it.

6300

You think the problem might be they are… walking around? Not actually listening to what the government is telling them to do? Did you see the streets when these countries tried and evidently got control… they were empty.

Then you just don’t believe in evidence. It’s hugely supported that people who are not sick will not get sick just because they are wearing a surgical masks and there is little not no proof that East Asian countries, who always have access to and wear these masks and are also the source hot bed source of the problem somehow controlled this with everyone wearing masks… which they didn’t of course because that’s where the other measures came in.

6301

Thanks for the info. Those are some harrowing numbers.

I’m a former New Orleans resident (grateful to be living in Oregon now). I’m posting those stats to the forum because it looks like New Orleans is quickly becoming the third hotspot in the U.S. It’s also a major shipping port with fragile infrastructure going into hurricane season. I’m worried for the people I know there and for the city in general.

6302

In japan and Singapore people are walking around.

I mean, they have taken other measures as well, and I’m sure compliance is better, but if this thing is spread by droplets then if the infected are wearing masks that’s going to help at least a bit, right?

6303

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6304

I agree. I’m trying to close off to infection two of the primary places where it occurs, mouth and nose. Covering those areas makes sense.

That said, it’s moot now anyway since masks cann’t be purchased anymore and any that are made need to go to medical staff.

Once all this is over there will be many households in America with a supply of masks in the closet. People will remember.

6305

Yeah they didn’t fully shutdown and neither of we trying to do that, but did their Coumo have to get on a hot mic and ask why so many aren’t taking this seriously?

Look that chart is drawn in and and even has an outlier of the fraction of a fraction of the countries in that region it bothered to include. Masks are not going to save the general public, but they can help our healthcare system.

Listening to the most restrictive government advice is what is going to do that. There is no magical answer in these surgical masks for the general public. Nothing that let’s us just do whatever with a mask on which is what people desperately want to believe in… and remember the general public is panicking now, buying up supplies they don’t need… and now they’re going to move to some other product like eggs maybe or milk… who knows. They want to be told something and staying at home is not something a panicking person feels is doing something. And the mixed messages, makes it worse.

6306
6307

Yep, my gym is closed for a while. I did go last weekend before they did that and stayed a decent distance away from others. Used disinfectant wipes before and after using the treadmill, and grabbed one or two more on my way out to wipe my hands and phone off thoroughly.

But it’s best just to have it closed for a while.

6308

Well we know he’s been in larger social gatherings.

6309

Can we cut off his healthcare coverage and make sure he’s the one waiting for a hospital bed? It only seems just.

6310

Indeed, time to test the libertarian faith in perfect markets.

6311

Is it? From what i understand the reason experts think - if they think - wearing lower grade masks is ineffective isn’t because they offer no barrier at all, but because people aren’t fit tested and untrained and don’t wear them correctly, more or less making them useless.

There is evidence that reusable cloth masks often used in Asian countries are significantly worse though. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long

6312

You’re talking about the N95 masks which have to be fitted. What you see in Asia general populations, where wearing a mask is… pretty ordinary, are… surgical masks.

6313

Oh I agree, compliance with social distancing is more important, and we don’t have enough masks.

But if and when we end the restrictions, it would be good to have mask production in place if it does make a difference, as it’s a relatively low impact adjustment that we can maintain continuously

6314

Gah - missed Triggercut’s post