Just starting DF’s video on the new consoles. Doesn’t seem super positive so far really. Big step up from the older consoles but maybe outclassed by the high end PCs they looked at.
I’m not thrilled that I have to play for X hours before ‘it gets good’.
Can’t games be good right away? I know, this is subjective.
Looking at you, Valhalla and Cyberpunk, though.
Presumably the higher end PCs cost 4+ times as much as the consoles, so not exactly surprising.
Probably also RT which isn’t just a cost issue.
Separately, the Series S seems to get ok marks.
Oh hang on, just realised these are the old console versions running on the new consoles, which I didn’t realise.
I’d agree that there is a fundamental difference between a game that goes for emergent narrative based on sophisticated systems that interact in unpredictable ways, and a game that goes for a more intentional narrative based on bespoke design and intentional direction of the player. Both types off games can be excellent, but they are very different.
I’d also say that they are somewhat incompatible. I know some will disagree, but to me, if you tried to combine the systems-based emergent gameplay model with bespoke story-telling, and hand-made environments, it does not work well. I’ve never played a game based on emergent models that delivered a coherent and satisfying story the way a hand-crafted RPG can. I’ve never played a hand-crafted RPG that delivered the feeling of freedom and unpredictability that an open-world emergent gameplay type game can. Cyberpunk 2077 I think does a fair job of giving you about as much open-world freedom as it can, within the limits of its prime directive, which is to tell the story of V. You can change how V does things, and you can even in your own mind develop your view of why, but you can’t really change what V does in the end. That’s the price you pay for this sort of narrative-based RPG.
If this was a true open-world, no holds barred game, many folks would probably ditch that main early quest that sets up the whole rest of the game. It’s too fishy, too dicey, but you are locked into it. You have to do it, though, because the story demands it. That’s what kind of game this is. You are not a free agent, you are a prisoner of fate the same as Jackie, Johnny, and the rest of the lost souls in Night City.
I’m cool with that. I do agree though that it would not hurt to make, say, people pay attention to when I’m driving on the sidewalk, or have NPCs react in more believable ways. But in the grand scheme of things, I don’t notice that when I’m doing jobs in the city. The city is a backdrop, a character; it’s not really the center of the game.
Hmm, I was engrossed in both from the get-go. The Norway intro in Valhalla I thought was fine, and the Cyberpunk origin stories are pretty good (the two I’ve played at least), as was the early gameplay after that. I’m not sure why people are so unhappy about this stuff; seems fine to me.
The intro is fine, the extra long cutscene where you ‘press F to pretend to participate’ was too long. I’m saved at the end of that, where now supposedly ‘it gets fun’.
Or maybe I actually don’t like the game. That wouldn’t be a shock, considering the last few years I have really soured on a lot of games.
Yeah, the one thing I don’t like about how CDP does stuff is the reliance on semi-interactive cutscene-like sequences where you, as you say, “press F to pretend to participate.” They try to jazz it up sometimes with the timed conversation options, but that just makes it both boring and stressful. Admittedly, the dialog is often good and well-spoken, and the story is interesting, but there are too many of these sequences that go on too long. And the first time through you certainly don’t want to skip them.
Kolbex
3985
What’s not handcrafted about GTA?
There’s nothing to defend. You’re describing The Witcher 3. There are no big surprises here.
I had a huge crush on Judy, but then I met Panam! Oh man.
Looks the male cop with the eye might be a romance option too.
mutait
3988
I’m early in, just getting into the rhythm, and I hit a side mission with a bug that somehow made it both way too easy and impossible to complete. The target clipped into some stairs and got stuck with just her head protruding, allowing me to line up the 30 headshots needed to incapacitate her. But then her body slipped down out of view along with whatever (I assume) I needed to finish the mission. Awesome. I’ve been willing to ignore the jank and rough edges so far because I like so much of what they’ve put together here, but something about what just happened stops me cold. I just can’t suspend disbelief anymore. It’s like V’s in some hidden camera prank show, and Robot Ashton Kushner or Cyber Allen Funt is about to come running out.
Pretty fair points, though I still think the city as a character is amazing and the missions (meat and potatoes gameplay) are still extremely well done.
It would be fabulous if they are able to inject a bit of life into it though. I’m happy enough with what it is, but the “gamey-ness” of the flaws can be a bummer.
stusser
3990
All the emergent systems in the game. Obviously humans built them but they interact is unexpected ways to provide gameplay. Just not anything I personally find engrossing.
CO2077 is totally narrative driven and so far, the story and voice acting is great. You’re forced into a role by the story, you have no true freedom to evade that, but if that experience is fun and diverse enough to provide replayability who cares?
Kolbex
3991
I’m still not really sure what you’re referring to here. I mean, people get pissed off if I run into or insult them, and if I do it enough they might pull out the gun and shoot me. Is this what you’re talking about? It doesn’t really seem terribly complex to me. Certainly none of the real “gameplay” exists outside of handcrafted missions, except maybe carriage stealing missions? Again not very complex.
Certainly I would never refer to RDR or GTA as “emergent”. Immersive, sure, but complex systems interacting to result in unexpected outcomes a la Dwarf Fortress, no.
stusser
3992
Driving taxis, ambulances, firefights breaking out around you, hunting missions, etc.
Kolbex
3993
None of that is “emergent gameplay” in the sense of the complex interaction of simulated systems whose inner workings are obscured from the player and result in outcomes unanticipated by the player or even the developer. Like, there’s no gang tension system or whatever running that keeps track of game agents and territories that causes the firefights to break out, the game just sometimes spawns in people to have them shoot at each other nearby because someone thought that would be cool. That’s handcrafted.
Here is a funny bug. Apparently, the traffic engineers in Night City are the best clients of the drug pushers. Every car in the right lane smacks into–and through–this pillar. Oops.
stusser
3995
You’re completely correct, I used the term as shorthand. But you’re right, that was lazy.
Same here, I don’t consider Cyberpunk (or Valhalla) something that has to “get good” eventually - I liked both immediately and enjoyed them more from there.
