Yeah, that would be great. Fix that and hit points and the two of my long time nuisance with DnD would evaporate.
I’m pretty excited about a new edition because I see it as nothing but a good thing. If it’s better than 3.5 then bonus for me and I can switch and if it’s worse then I keep playing 3.5 and I have less temptation to buy splatbooks. Win/win situation.
I stick with Chaosium’s percentage-based system. Call of Cthulhu was a great RPG. No cluttered screens to look up and cross reference with the Rogue’s & Assassins Optional Supplement of Sub-Categorical Feints and Dodges. Revised 3.76
Max Spot Hidden and try not to die. That’s my P&P motto.
I don’t think this is any different than their current revenue model. They release a core game that’s pretty good and then release never ending stream of splatbooks to satisfy the munchkins who want a constant stream of newer and more powerful classic/prestige classes/feats/spell/items to powergame with. Now they are going to extract some of that munchkin money online too.
The trick is to simply agree with your entire gaming group that the games will be core books only and save everyone a bunch of a money.
The thing is, D&D could use a really good online tabletop/voip program that allows the GM to manipulate maps and content online easily. If this version of the online component fails, I doubt they will return to it as a standalone product that people can setup a server themselves. Plus, how do 3rd party publishers integrate their content into Wizard’s online program? Is this a backdoor to milk other DWhatever publishers of cash directly?
I guarantee they aren’t going to stop making the host of other books too. This is just another revenue stream, not a replacement of an old one.
Hasbro is killing d20. Far too deluded, low in quality and now requires an internet connection + monthly fee. I can’t see how this is going to be worth it or a good thing for Pen and Paper/d20 in anyway.
I think you mean “diluted” but it’s a great typo given WotC’s ambitions here.
Troy
I haven’t been following it too closely, but isn’t the online stuff just a direct replacement for the magazines, which were already pay-by-the-month? Doesn’t seem any worse to me.
It’s a growth/expansion of an old one. The must figure the munchkins who demand constant new crunchy content will pay for it online too and can be tapped for a bit more moolah. Moving a revenue stream online doesn’t make it a new one.
And yes, they aren’t going to stop expanding the hell out of their product. Because that’s how publishers make money in this biz. Core rulebooks by themselves are not highly profitable ventures. Heck, I’d bet many aren’t profitable at all. So they establish the core rule books to a good game as an investment and then milk the playerbase for all it’s worth with splatbooks, and now apparently some splatsite too. But the beauty of this is that all that splat isn’t required. A smart player can stick to the core stuff or maybe add in one or two splats and enjoy a great game while the hordes of munchkins finance their favorite publishers.
So DnD is domed? ;-)
Seriously, I totally understand where your bleak outlook is coming from here. This is all business as usual. Every edition of DnD has tried to make money by selling add ons and more books and more modules. What’s the big deal?
Exactly. Being a completist and getting ALL official content for DnD has always been costly. And totally unnecessary.
It really depends on how playable the game is, with just the core books. With the “magazine” style they are going for, they could easily split the core rule books up, actually charging you more for core books than before.
Traditionally, we’ve had 3 books: Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual. They said there would be 8 books at launch. They could split the 3 into 8 pretty easily. The Monster Manuals could be broken into 10 level increments, so that’s three books. They could split the players handbook into 2 books, maybe three. There would be a core rules book, a prestige class book, and maybe an optional rules book. That’s another three. I’m not sure how they could split the Dungeon Master’s guide. I’d have to take a look at what’s in there. Maybe they’d split it into a running a campaign guide and loot guide?
Still, as concerned as I am about the online implementation, there’s design concerns as well. With the new “role” focused classes, they may be limiting the kind of campaigns players can run. Will every D&D encounter require a tank and healer? I’ve run and been in campaings with only 2 or 3 players. It wasn’t uncommon to have 2 rogues or a fighter and a ranger, etc, etc. Sure the DM will be able to modify or customize encounters, but emphasizing roles reads like limiting flexibility to me.
They promised the same three core books, and now they cover level 1-30 play instead of level 1-20.
I guess if one theorizes that they won’t make the core game as full features as 3.0/3.5 and try to force people to buy more stuff just to play the basic game, then yeah this is horrible news.
I really dont think they will do that however because that would be dumb. RPG have a constantly churning customer base. A guy only spends a few years as a teenager after all! They need the low barrier to entry that DnD has always had to keep capturing the new players.
My loyalty is to AD&D 2nd Edition. Come on people, it’s advanced.
DeepT, I have to wonder something.
Do you only comment about games when you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THEM?
It’s in the freakin’ FOR FREE OPEN SOURCE basic reference document. Not ONLY that, but for an arbitrarily large amount of 3E time now, “touch AC” has been a standard listing in monster and NPC stat blocks and there’s even a place on the character sheet SPECIFICALLY for it!
Did you just say WotC won’t do something because it’s dumb? Are we talking about the same company?
They are milking this industry for all it’s worth and I’m getting they are going to do exactly as you describe above, not put everything in the rule books so you are enticed to buy the online service. If they do anything else, it wouldn’t make good business sense.
That’s why I’ve got my panties in a bunch
And you use the constant churn of customers as a reason to get the entry cost low…explain the $120 entry cost to play now? Explain the probably 100+ extra books, explain the over priced plastic minis they heavily suggest in all of the books?
They aren’t selling to new people, they are selling to us, the people now with jobs and money. The long time D&D fans. And they’ve just come up with another way to milk us.
So no, D&D isn’t doomed. I don’t think this idea of theirs will work, personally, but I won’t say it’s doomed. What I will say is that unless 4.0 is something pretty damn cool (they even suggest it’s more like going from 3.0 to 3.5 in the press release) and changed, I’m probably done playing basic d20 for awhile. I’ve always had my complaints with it, but the press release alone is scaring me off the next version. Not doomed, but done for me most likely.
And Troy, yeah, you’re doubly right, wrong word but the right word.
QFT. I can’t really speak to in-person play, but if you’re playing on a computer, regularization and increased rationality just make the game feel more like a spreadsheet optimization problem, and less hand-crafted and unique.
I don’t think it’s an accident that all the great D&D CRPGs predate the 3rd edition, and the d20 games all feel slightly generic.
Meh, the 3rd edition system is great. And 3.5 only fixed it up. I’m a huge fan of it. I love the customization, the balance, and the ability to muchkin that shit if you put the work in.
That’s not to say it doesn’t have faults, the biggest being that it’s an action game that claims to be a roleplaying game, but it’s by no means a bad system.
I’ll bet you a 4.0 PHB that the PHB/DMG/MM combo is enough to play the game, same as in 3.0/3.5.
Right, but I bet that at least one class, some feats, etc are available online only. That’ll be the difference.
The only thing that really annoys me about 3.5 is that I finally get around to buying the core books, and a new edition is announced not six months later.
Madness.
Most of the D20 d&d games I’ve played have been core books only as mandated by the GM. Except for the latest campaign we’ve been playing, which is specifically designed to a munch-fest.
Well of course there will be some online only content, but it won’t be required to play. It might be something like blackguard or eldritch knight, but it’s not going to be something like cleric or barbarian.
Unless perhaps you consider the game unplayable without access to absolutely everything? Do you own all the splatbooks for 3.5?