DAOC Expansion...what were they thinking?

The big features of the DAOC expansion were:

[ul]More ares to explore, another main city for each of the lands.
2 new classes and one new race per land.
UI update.
Much improved graphics.

Ok, so they added new lands… but they made it so you have “zone” (we all remember EQ, right) to those new lands. How unbelievably annoying is that? One of the biggest draws to DAOC is that you don’t zone unless you go into the major cities or go into a dungeon. In the expansion you have to zone just to get to the new lands… I don’t know about anyone else, but to me that’s not a good solution to keeping people who don’t have the expansion out.

New classes and races… Sure, the races look different, but they aren’t really different other than a few points in their stats moved around…big whoop. And while the classes are pretty different (most of them), they aren’t what the lands needed, imho. What does midgard have that no other land does? A healer/mage. The shaman isn’t really good at either, but that’s the breaks of playing a ‘hybrid’. Each land should have SOMETHING along those lines and they just passed over that in the expansion. And half of the classes added were pet classes…why? I don’t know. Maybe easier to play test… shrugs

The new UI… That little box that has the clickable buttons… wow, that’s a GREAT new UI update </sarcasm>. Oh yeah, and they changed the colors…

The only reason I’m not disappointed enough to return the expansion is the new graphics engine is nice. It looks better, runs smoother and you can see farther.

I guess what I’m really saying it’s more of a ho hum expansion than it needed to be. IMHO.


Your whine knob needs adjusting if you’re planning on being a MMORPG player long-term.

Definitely, he’s not complaining enough.

The only place worse than the religious and Battlecruiser newsgroups are the Verant EQ forums.

AS an outsider who does is not playing DAOC, I would say that is a relatively decent amount of added content. I know it is more than UO added in one or two of its expansions.

I wonder how many people go to MMORPG company-run game sites and fan websites looking to get involved in a new game, see the fans incessantly bitching, and decide they will give it a pass. “If the players who like it and make 20 posts a day are griping this much, why would I want to try it out at all.” I have done this when trying to look at some strategy MMO games over at MPOGD.com. I look at a couple and then decide not to bother. Too much hassle. Look at all the single player stuff I haven’t finished for goodness sake.

PS: I am not singling you out wzrd, I just me MMORPG fan boards in general.

This is exactly why DAoC doesn’t have an official message board. Mythic is quick to confess this. They believe that those who enjoy the game spend their time playing the game… And those that don’t enjoy the game don’t play and spend all their time whining about it on message boards.

I did not know that. Well, good for them. No wonder wzrd is here drumming up support for his ‘This Expansion Blows’ campaign. :wink:

I wasn’t drumming up support, I was wondering what others think about said expansion? Am I just off my rocker?

I’ve been playing MMORPGs since UO, played everyone of the originals and I will continue to play more of them in the future… I was just curious if this “expansion” was generally liked or disliked by those who play DAOC.

And I agree completely with Mythics no forums idea, it has actually made the community around the game less bitchy. I posted here because you guys seem to actually play games, care about them AND think about them. Sorry if that doesn’t carry over to you, Tyjenks. :|

You realize of course that DAOC has always had some zoning? Zoning into the capitol city, zoning into a dungeon, zoning into the foreign realm for RvR - those have always been in the game. Zoning in DAOC is IMO quicker than EQ and doesn’t happen very much. The expansion adds ONE new step to zone: now you must zone from your home realm to the expansion realm - that’s it, one zone. It’s not like EQ where you might have to zone 5 or 6 times just to visit a bank in a city. Frankly I think complaining about adding ONE zone is ludicrous and overblown. It is at most a very minor annoyance.

I do agree with Wzrd on the new races/classes though - they are not all that great an addition. The new races seem uninteresting (I find the Inconnu downright un-appealing) and the new pet classes all seem redundant. The new hybrids do seem cool: I will try a Reaver at some point.

The UI update is at least nice and clean, and they did add 10 hotekys per bar, and single click buttons replacing many / commands. I like it. YMMV.

The new graphics engine IS quite nice and not only looks better but on my machine provides better performance. I was on a Caer Sidi raid last night with 60 people and I got noticeable improvement over the prior engine with comparable RvR and DF raids.

Wzrd, what you are leaving out is what I consider the core of the expansion: new content. There is a sizeable chunk of new content in this expansion, both in terms of new areas, and new foes to fight. There are also several new types of AI (I’ve seen ambush tactics, I’ve seen “scoot n shoot” tactics, and a lot more call for help / bring a friend type stuff). Additionally there are quite a few new quests, some of which are quite cool - I just did one called “The Village of the Damned” and you have to do it to appreciate it - extremely cool.

As for content, they added 6 new outdoor zones to each realm, plus 3 hefty sized dungeons. I’ve been in all 3 of the new Albion dungeons and these are big, impressive dungeons (my Caer Sidi screenshots are awesome). The ruined City of Avalon is also a cool “dungeon”. Multiplied by 3 realms, thats a LOT of content.

So I continue to feel this is a very good expansion. If you like DAOC, you will like the expansion. However if you DONT like DAOC, dont expect to enjoy the expansion.

That leaves the whole issue of why people who complain, whine, scream and yell about these games continue to pay to play them, but thats for another post :).


Albion Morgan Le Fay Danthus et al


I haven’t experienced much of the new content yet, so you probably have a good point there. I guess I will have to spend more time with it before I make a final judgement.

As for the whining and still playing…I never said I didn’t like it DAOC as a whole, only that the expansion wasn’t as much as it could have been, imho.

<Matt runs off to get killed in brand new places> :)

No, I apologize. I really was not aware of the lack of official community boards and wanted to share with you my ignorance. I threw the drummin’ up support crack in as a joke (Again, I need a jokey sarcasmy emoticon instead of the winky one). I did not think you were whining, just pointing out that what you expected from it did not meet up with what you got. :)

Peace and chicken grease,

Any idea how many new quests are in the expansion? One thing I hate about DAoC is how at the higher levels there are no quests. The only way to advance is to endlessly kill mobs, often the same mobs. (In fact, many mobs are the same in looks as the lower level mobs you killed last week.)

Basically, what I’m asking is if level advancement post level 30 has been made more interesting? I really can’t stand it in DAoC. The first 20 levels are fun. From 20-30 is ok. From 30 is one of the most boring game experiences I’ve had.

Are there any MMORPGs that have done the high levels well?

Well it still suffers from the weird idea that things get harder as you get up in levels. I recall a post of yours, Mark, on the Vault boards saying something about how all aspects of DAOC get worse as you level. You were making a point about bass-ackwards game design IIRC. Sadly, you were dead-on and that is still true.

BUT the expansion does offer more than was previoulsy available. In the expension I am aware of about 5 quests in Avalon (Albion) for levels 30 to 40 and another 5 or so for levels 40 to 50. The biggest addition in terms of content is the addition of 5 zones that have content for 30+ characters (3 of them are really for 40+ only), plus 3 big dungeons for 40+ characters. (This is per realm - to get the total number multiply by 3). Its now easier to get groups at 35+ b/c there are more places to go, more stuff to do. Hence it is now easier to advance than it was (although still annoyingly slow IMO).

The other big improvement to the game came before the expansion: the spellcrafting and alchemy skills. Player-made items are now finally living up to the promise of being the best items in the game, which both allows you to customize yourself to your heart’s content and alleviates some of the loot-obsession at high levels.

Bottom line: if you enjoyed DAOC before I believe the expansion is worth checking out. You might not stick, but you will probably have fun for awhile.

Also if you decide to make a new character, I HIGHLY recommend the co-op server Gaheris. All 3 realms will be open for exploration, there is a fairly easy network of teleports, and you can group with anyone with no fear of being preyed upon by PKers. You will also have access to most quests in all 3 lands. If you want to just SEE the expansion content with a new character, I recommend the Co-op server.

I really wish I could transfer my existing chars to the Co-op server. I’d be there in a heartbeat :).


DAoC has the RvR which a lot of people like and EQ has the massive guild-raid adventures.

I think Mythic had a good idea with the RvR, but they made it too hard to get to level 50 and made the combat too tilted towards levels. A lot of DAoC players will tell you that the level 20-24 Battleground for low-level RvR is the most enjoyable RvR in the game.

DAoC Expansion rocks, The new races are cool, new spells are cool, and I have spent an extensive amount of time exploring only one of the new areas.

Great stuff!

Did they add an Engineer race?

No, but they added a class that can create turrets.

DAoC has the RvR which a lot of people like and EQ has the massive guild-raid adventures.

I think Mythic had a good idea with the RvR, but they made it too hard to get to level 50 and made the combat too tilted towards levels. A lot of DAoC players will tell you that the level 20-24 Battleground for low-level RvR is the most enjoyable RvR in the game.[/quote]

And most of the people I RvR with will never go to the BG again becuase of all the idiot noobs that run around there yelling at each other. It’s all a matter of prespective - I never thought getting to 50 was espcially difficult (I went from lvl 49 to 50 on my Hero in about 8 hours), but I can understand the argument that the high level game before rvr is boring. A lot of content (epic quests, high level dungeons, new high level quests that give 3.3billion+ xp at completion) have been added in the last few months, plus they have eased the penalty on grouping with lower level characters and made it easier to go from 40 - 50. Plus they removed the lvl modifiers in rvr so lower levels can be more effective in high level RvR.

I haven’t delved into the HIGH levels yet (I’m 32nd level at the moment), but it seems AC2 has a nice epic quest setup for players starting at level 30 and carrying them through 50. The first stage of the quest nets you a nice weapon, then the subsequent quests enhance the weapon, adding damage and magical effects to it. In addition, when you first obtain your weapon, you have your choice of which weapon you want so I, for example, could get a drum while an archer can grab a bow. The quests are repeatable every couple of days (though the weapons are no-drop) and are worth a sizable chunck of experience.
Add that to the vaults that are spread out all the way to level 49 and one could potentially make it to 50 without lifting their sword (well, I guess they’d need to to kill the vault bosses).

No, but they added a class that can create turrets.[/quote]

They have that in AC2 – they also have it in DAOC now?