Great, look how well that turned out.
The biggest problem with DX2 was a platform transition and that won’t be the case here. DX2 was unfairly maligned and I expect the same to happen here: People will be all over the sequel, and then continue to whine like little bitches when they can’t run through a level hammering the attack button.
By the time that Dark Souls comes out I may be able to finish my 2nd run through of Demon’s Souls. This is definitely going to be buy for me, the only question is what console to get it for.
DX2 was unfairly maligned
ORLY?
I’ve been thinking about that, and unless they do a major controls overhaul, I’m sticking with the PS3. The 360 trigger/shoulder won’t be quite as easy to use as the ps3 shoulder buttons for the actions needed by the game.
(This is officially the only time I"ll pick the ps3 over the 360)
Hard and severely punishing are entirely intentional with Demon’s Souls and I think that adds significantly to atmosphere and feel of the game. It wouldn’t feel nearly as tense if the consequences weren’t significant.
For most of the really hard ones the path leading to them isn’t terribly difficult anyway. The run up to Maneater only takes a couple of minutes with only one real enemy along the way. Flamelurker is also easy to get to, it’s either very fast if you’re comfortable with the pit of doom or a little slower if you take the more traditional path, which has tons of really easy short cuts of its own and you can just run past every enemy on the way there. I think people forget that running past enemies is a perfectly viable option in many cases.
Really dug the first one, the sequel is a day one purchase for me.
I know this may not necessarily be in the spirit of the game, but I kind of wish there was a way to play through this start to finish in co-op with specific friends.
They are easy after you know how, true. Until you do though, it’s repetition of the type I don’t really have patience for anymore. It’s kind of like learning a race track or a multiplayer FPS map until you always just know where to go - this is pretty much exactly opposite of the exploration type of play that I prefer.
Also yeah, pansy. Those bosses are huge!
I’m more concerned about losing souls, so I find myself running back to the Nexus to soul up before taking on a boss. I’d be annoyed if there no shortcut to the boss. The run backs have been ok so far, and I hate redoing stuff.
There are several ways of taking down the bosses, they aren’t a puzzle with just one answer. The game constantly pushes you to change and learn new tactics, why should the bosses be any different? Also most aren’t actually that hard and you can kill them on your first encounter. In all of worlds 4 and 5 I only died once to a boss on my first play through.
You should really get over this, you’ll drive yourself nuts if you’re worried about losing souls all the time. Hell I’ve lost hundreds of thousands in a single death, after you finish the game and start a New Game+ you can’t actually spend your souls on anything until you finish 1-1 again, and I lost all my souls there.
Don’t plan on doing everything in a level the first time through. Do a couple of runs only for gear and to learn the level then plan a boss run. The levels are intended to be played through more than once.
You’re absolutely right, and that’s one of the reasons I’ll be looking closely at the 360 version of this title. The ability to play like that would be key in getting my wife to play it, as well, and as our 1000+ achievement points apiece in RE5 will tell you, that can be a good time.
Other than that (and unrelated to your post), I think the key thing for fans of this title is to avoid giving it the flavor of nerd elitism that its predecessor acquired earlier.
It takes a little fiddling but you can easily play with specific people, you just need to coordinate outside of the game. The issue really is that the Blue Phantom doesn’t make any progress in their own game.
Other than that (and unrelated to your post), I think the key thing for fans of this title is to avoid giving it the flavor of nerd elitism that its predecessor acquired earlier.
I don’t even know what this means.
Yeah if there’s proper coop support I’ll play through the whole game with a friend.
I think some people had an attitude of “it’s too hardcore for you” since it’s a very demanding game that requires a high level of commitment to get the most our of it.
For instance, I haven’t recommended the game to some of my more casual gamer friends, but I’ve pushed it hard on all my friends who have even a passing interest in game design. I wouldn’t characterize it as elitism, exactly, since I haven’t intentionally pushed anybody away from it (just given a qualified recommendation), but i can see people doing just that if they feel somebody “wouldn’t get it”.
I know how to do it. I’m saying it sucks and I don’t want to deal with it again. Being on XBL probably solves about half the problem by including parties and voice chat even if nothing else changes. I’d also like to see quick respawns so you don’t have to resummon on fail and not having to choose between being invaded and playing solo.
On the other hand, I don’t think not making progress in your game is a problem but rather a feature for this type of game.
I don’t even know what this means.
It means that every game has its segment of fans who want to brag about their prowess in a manner that suggests that their achievements are out of the reach of ordinary mortals. It’s more true in some games than others. For the most part, in Demon’s Souls there’s a lot of big talk about a game that’s very accessible and could really appeal to a broader segment, especially if once obstacles are encountered by a new player they are engaged constructively rather than reprimanded with bullshit bravado. This hasn’t been a big problem with the qt3 DS community (and there’s certainly a place for good-natured ribbing), and I’d like to see more of that instead of gushing quasi-reviews extolling how super hard core it is.
The reality is that Demon’s Souls is NOT a hard game. Once you change your approach, and understand that it is a slow game and not a fast game, it becomes, well, pretty damn easy. Sure, you’ll hit the odd wall of difficulty, but generally that’s just a need to change tactics.
Demon’s Souls is inaccessible. It is difficult to understand what you are supposed to do and why you are supposed to do it. But the game itself is not particularly hard, once you do understand it.
They can probably take big steps to make it more accessible, without actually changing any of the gameplay, difficulty, or pacing.
Really, words instead of icons, a bit of pop ups telling you what does what, and done. GOTY 2011.
(Actually, it’s GOTY 2011 already).
I think the online aspect is fantastic, yes it’s limited but it’s intentionally so and I think it’s incredibly innovative while also holding true to the concept of the world and game experience they’ve created. Frankly, I think it was incredibly ballsy to make the multiplayer essentially anonymous and stick to the ideals of the game rather than compromise their vision. Forcing the situation of getting help while also opening your self to invasion fits right along with this and just continues to add to the experience and atmosphere of the game. I actually think the game would be a poorer overall experience if they included pre-made coop and chat functionality, their focus is razor sharp and their choices with the multiplayer don’t dull it at all.
On the other hand, I don’t think not making progress in your game is a problem but rather a feature for this type of game.
In it’s current design I don’t think it is either, but if people want full on coop start to finish it will become a problem as one player won’t be advancing at the same pace as the other.
It means that every game has its segment of fans who want to brag about their prowess in a manner that suggests that their achievements are out of the reach of ordinary mortals. It’s more true in some games than others. For the most part, in Demon’s Souls there’s a lot of big talk about a game that’s very accessible and could really appeal to a broader segment, especially if once obstacles are encountered by a new player they are engaged constructively rather than reprimanded with bullshit bravado. This hasn’t been a big problem with the qt3 DS community (and there’s certainly a place for good-natured ribbing), and I’d like to see more of that instead of gushing quasi-reviews extolling how super hard core it is.
I didn’t see this, at least not excessively compared to other games. I saw lots of cautionary recommendations. The game really isn’t for everyone and it’s really not accessible. The tutorial tells you the bare minimum of the controls and nothing else. There are systems which are never even referenced in the game and barely mentioned in the manual. You absolutely need some third party to describe how much of the game works. The fact that Demon’s Souls was at all successful in North America I think shows just how great the word of mouth was.
I generally agree, but I think there’s a little more to it than that.
DS is, as you say, a slow game, but it enforces that slowness by being very unforgiving of failure. I think its unforgiving-ness is what people really mean when they say it is hard.
(How unforgiving it actually is is a matter of some contention, since aside from some body-form world tendency and gecko stuff, there’s no way to actually lose anything, but that’s another issue).
And yet, failure is easy to avoid if you pay attention and rub some braincells together. Sure, sometimes you’ll hit a string of enemies who are just a huge bitch and kill you repeated (4-2 gold skeletons I’m looking at you, bitches!), but in general, the only way you are going to fail repeatedly is when you keep banging your head against the wall and using the same failing tactics over and over.
The problem with Demon’s Souls is not the game, most of the time.
I agree with you, Charles, but I think (and some others have mentioned this), it’s a little inaccessible even in presenting the general mindset of the game. In the tutorial, it literally tells you what things do, but I remember running through it at first unaware of what the approach should be. Then, at some point, the tutorial just flat out crushes you regardless of what you do to advance the game.
Maybe I don’t remember the tutorial area that well, but I would have put in some of the ground note markers specifically talking about warnings and then having things ambush you like the do in the game. Or some other technique to help people understand the need to slow down a bit. I only feel this way because in the full game, the training method is to completely kick your ass over and over. If it was a little more explicit about slowing down, then early learning might be more focused on just getting better.
As for the co-op, I feel like there must be a way to allow me to invite 2 friends from my Xbox list and team up without jumping through the current hoops and keep the general feel they are going for intact. I don’t know what it is off the top of my head, but I feel like that should be part of the story/setting/game design. Demon’s Souls was pretty ballsy in how it did grouping, but a lot of people enjoy having friends lists and all the convenience that brings.