Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

You obviously weren’t paying attention. There was a human villain and an ape villain! You know, to show that we’re just like them slash they’re just like us slash can’t we all just get along with each other slash there’s good and evil in all species.

-Tom

Koba’s hatred and distrust of humans was acquired through a lifetime of physical abuse and torture. So I’m loathe to call him a villain like the two dimensional chief engineer.

Oldman was responding to a threat and wasn’t twirling his mustache and waiting for a chance to strap ol’ blue eyes to the railroad tracks in time for the 5:15. He even authorized the peaceful attempt to work with the apes…although he made sure to have his defenses on the ready just in case. A completely believable action from a leader, I would say.

And yes, I do believe that the main point of the story was Caesar’s coming to the realization that humans and apes weren’t so different after all. But I also don’t believe it was framed as a traditional good guy vs. bad guy story. There was a (almost tragic) villain in Koba, yes. But I think the real villain in the story was the mob mentality found in Caesar’s people that he didn’t believe existed because he was convinced that apes were better than that.

I assume the plan was to get to a safe distance before detonating, but he had to do it on the spot because Jason Clarke was going squirrely on him.

I wouldn’t call the engineer a villain so much as an idiot. I think Koba’s betrayal of Cesar made him more of a villain, but at the same time he did that because his hated of humans was driving him, built up after a lifetime of abuse, as you pointed out. I thought the movie did an admirable job of making even the “bad” characters sympathetic to some extent, showing that this kind of conflict stems more from misunderstandings, preconceived prejudices, and a lack of forgiveness, more than some sort of evil, manipulating mastermind… even though Koba did manipulate the apes to start the conflict… but it wasn’t for some sort of personal gain that he did it, rather as a way to get revenge and protect future generations of apes.

Dudes, just because Gary “Book of Eli” Oldman cried when his iPad turned back on and he fingered through a few pictures of his Dead Family doesn’t mean he wasn’t a villain. Also, Kirk “Oz” Avecedo was absolutely a villain, even if he’d been bullied into being a villain. And if there’s anything movies have taught us, it’s that bullies deserve their comeuppance and sometimes that means getting murdered by apes that steal your lighter.

Also, ha ha, you guys are discussing the intricacies of a Matt “Let Me In” Reeves movie!

I don’t doubt it. Dawn of the Apes features some of the lamest demolitionists this side of Yosemite Sam.

-Tom

Oh yeah?! Well… well… it takes one to know one!

Probably the most interesting thing about the movie – to me, anyway – is that it is pretty much the same plot as the book I’m writing. And I don’t know if it’s because I’ve spent a few months living with this plot, but I was a little alarmed at how closely my stuff hewed to the stuff on the screen, and how B+ it felt when I saw someone else doing the same thing I was trying to do. On the plus side, the movie’s doing well and people seem to like it.

They’re setting up the explosives as Jason Clarke comes upon them, and Gary Oldman even asks him to help them finish up. But Jason Clarke wants to give Ceasar a chance so this can be resolved without more bloodshed, so pulls a gun on Gary Oldman. But Gary Oldman grabs the detonator and blows the tower to try and wipe the apes out. Hence Gary Oldman winds up below the explosives when they go off. It’s clear cause and effect all the way.

Wait, you think I missed all that, and that’s why I think the script is dumb? Dude.

Hey, you know what else is dumb? Jason Clarke survives the explosion even though he’s standing a few feet from Gary Oldman because Jason Clarke had the presence of mind to jump out of the way of the explosion. Or was I not paying close enough attention to that either? :)

 -Tom

So, I guess then the contrivance is that two people with the same goal (dealing with Koba) find themselves in the same spot at the same time and come into conflict about how to do it? Or…what? Help me out here.

It turns out the best place to deal with an ape on top of a skyscraper is in the sewers under the skyscraper!

You know what else is dumb? Having to “test” weapons by getting a couple of yahoos to fire them at a wrecked car. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a movie where the survivors have to “test” the weapons that way. “Okay, Buford and Larry, you guys take a bottle of whiskey, go to the armory, and just shoot the guns at something for a while. Let us know if anything breaks!”

-Tom

Things Tom also disliked about the movie include:

Main characters wore colors that DID NOT accentuate their skin tones.

Someone lingered too long on the last consonant in the word “languish” in one scene.

There was SOME James Franco, but overall the James Franco quotient was WAY below the threshold a movie requires in order to meet Tom’s rigorous and exacting James Franco prerequisites that help him to ignore any other weaknesses in the film.

Nothing transformed. Nothing. Not even one damn scene of a monkey turning into an SUV, for Christ’s sake.

No Eva Green breasts is bad enough. No Eva Green at all though?

It had a higher than 20 percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

;)

How about James Franco nipples and Eva Green transforms into a giant robot ape Voltron style?

Summer blockbuster!

Edit- Only the giant robot ape is a MAN! Which then gives the Empire State building a lapdance Full Monty style throwing off piles of monkeys instead of clothes!

It’s been a weird morning…

I think I can give a pass to the demolition in the sewer, as others have pointed out Gary Oldman and crew were caught in the middle without clearing out when the whole thing went down. The fact that this happened toward the end of the movie and so many other bad plot points had already occurred, I wouldn’t say Tom wasn’t paying attention, I thing he was just worn down and this was just one more thing. I think a lot of these were badly utilized.

Running out of wire when blowing the dam. Not bad, its a limited resource in the ape-ocolypse. Things like this should run out, but blowing the dam and then getting rescued by the apes was a bad choice. The apes could have contributed in a different way to endear them to the humans.

The ape-hater / dam expert was badly done, since they ended up sending him away and were still able to get the dam up and running.

The radio should have been able to be run on a hand crank or something. After 10 years in the ape-ocolypse its time to stop constant broadcasting for survivors. I wonder if they were already in touch with someone, if that were the case, they should have rationed power and scheduled specific talk times.

I do wonder though about the the apes charging the humans straight down the street. They were essentially engaging in warfare, but were never tactically trained or prepared. The closest thing in their history was the hunt from the beginning which I recall being similarly straight forward.

I think if this thread has proven anything its, that there are people that are good and bad on both the podcast and the forums. We are all a lot more alike than we seem… can’t we all just get along?

Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape! - George Taylor

Seemed like a sound strategy to me, yeah. I’m not saying the scene doesn’t have any problems, but it’s not down to any dumb logic complaints. The logic of what happens and why is perfectly defensible. (Well, the choreography of Jason Clarke dodging into the subway tunnel maybe not so much.) The real problem as I see it is that unlike Koba and Ceasar’s throwdown up top, there’s no relationship or conflict between them to pay off. They’ve just been off separately being altruistic/tribalistic, so all they can do is restate the theme of the movie yet again.

yup, that sums it up for me… too bad. I really liked the Rise movie and also liked the Ceasar character in the 1st one very much. But this time?
This felt so filming-done-by-committee… everything that happened we’ve see thousand times before.

I still liked the ape CGI, that was the best thing to me (the ape faces and mimic). I don’t care about plot holes, if the characters are interesting or
likable. But this was a very bad script, it did nothing to make the characters interesting (I liked Koba though)…

I still want to see the next one, but my expectations are pretty low now.

I loved the spread of the virus in the opening credits. Andy Serkis was as usual excellent as a non human in a suit and everything else… meh.

I just watched this. Not bad! I really enjoyed the switch in the movie, subverting my expectations. When it starts off, it looks like this wonderful ape colony that’s going to be facing danger from the remnants of the humans. But then, through a series of admittedly contrived set of circumstances, it turns out to be the opposite. The remnants of the humans are in danger from the evil ape instead.

The ape attack on the humans was surprisingly engaging to watch. As was the final fight between the two main characters.