I do understand that, and I dont see people saying dems have no right to be in power at all so what point are you trying to make here?
The first rule of taking hostages or playing chicken is that the person you’re threatening has to be convinced you’ll really do it. From that standpoint, having a crazy rump to your caucus is helpful. I’m not convinced they’re out of control at all.
JeffL
1683
Well, you can have two choices with these guys: you can believe they are the best political negotiators ever, or that they are naive idiotic fanaticists.
Having heard their speeches and seen their writing, I believe the latter.
Those choices aren’t mutually exclusive. (see North Korea)
Lum
1685
You’re not looking very hard.
JeffL
1686
Yeah, good point.
I cannot figure out what is going on behind closed doors right now. The GOP are messaging that negotiations with the White House/Dems are going on and they are “close.” To what??? Who believes that Boehner can even negotiate for the crazies, i.e. who cares if McConnell and Boehner cut a deal with the White House, if they can’t get it through the House, who wouldn’t pass anything without a constitutional amendment - and even then, 22 of the GOP voted against it because they just don’t believe in passing anything that will permit us to pay the current bills.
I think something will pass at the last minute, the previous vote was political cover on a vote with a known outcome (not being able to pass the senate). I think you will get enough people to vote for a compromise at the last minute.
I heard earlier on the radio that Obama had met up privately with Pelosi and Reid. I wonder if it was to assure them that there is a “Plan B” in place (platinum coin seignorage, exploding property sale option, 14th Amendment challenge to the idea of a debt ceiling).
JeffL
1689
It will take a sizeable number of Republicans willing to break away from the Tea Party. Many of them have already indicated they will not vote to pay our bills (the debt ceiling) no matter what. And it took including a clause that they will amend the constitution to get any bill out of the House. Of course, that was with zero Democratic votes. The only thing I can even imagine is they come out of negotiations with the White House with something that the House Dems will vote for and just enough House GOP votes to pass it. But that will require the same House members who would not break with the Tea Party to break with them now.
Wolf Blitzer is so funny. Right now the republicans in the senate are filibustering, McConnel and Reid just jostled over whether this is a filibuster, and whether this is normal:
McConnel: for the (majority leader) to suggest that for a matter of this magnitude in a body that requires 60 votes for almost everything that it be done with 51 votes makes no sense at all. I object.
Reid (who is pathetic, dear god): … it is unconscionable that the republicans would filibuster legislation preventing default on national obligations. Frankly, it is unprecedented. Since 1962 congress has raised the debt limit 74 times, including 18 times under president Reagan. And there was never threat of a filibuster, and it was always by majority vote.
Here is Wolf’s impartial summary:
At issue is whether the vote for harry reid’s proposal would require a simple majority 51 votes or a 60 vote if there is a filibuster. The republicans are filibustering. You just heard McConnel say that almost every important vote in the Senate that is the nature of the game. Democrats don’t have 60 votes to break a republican filibuster on this so Harry Reid’s proposal will do down. McConnel saying in effect there are important negotiations going on right now with the president and the vice president, why are we wasting our time, he’s suggesting, on these procedural votes in the senate.
I like Wolfie. I like how he omits that it is unprecedented. In no way is that important. Good job. He further gives credence to the notion that this is ‘wasting time.’ Ha. He is a funny, funny, guy.
Not all of the MSM is shitty. This morning Ali Velshi really took people to task. But he’s Canadian and he probably doesn’t like his job.
Wolfie has been around longer and he knows which side the bread is buttered on.
The 24 hour news channels, even the so-called liberal ones, are so complicit in the rightward shift of public policy over time. After all they’re owned and run by major corporations. The lefty political bent of an MSNBC, for instance, ends up being nothing more than a marketing ploy to deliver a certain demographic to advertisers.
All you need is 20-30 repubs to vote for a compromise bill. You can let the tea party folks and all that vote against it if you just choose the right people who are in safe seats to vote for the increase and it all works politically.
Well, CNBC is discussing the options using MMT, so you’ll like that, Papageno!
You think there will be a compromise? What are they going to do, have the republicans draw straws to see who will draw anger from their radical fringe by not purposefully crashing the economy?
I doubt republicans will even dare pass a compromise between the tea party bill and the current compromise bill. It isn’t like there is a ton of time left and yet Republicans are still wearing their suicide vests and preparing to bomb the economy unless the US government agrees to their demands.
He has said he wont do challenges of that sort that he believes congress needs to take care of this issue.
Well, thank the f*cking stars. It’s coming a little on the late side, but honestly, people need to stop thinking about our federal government’s spending as though it were constrained by anything other than the productive limits of our economy (if you exceed those you get demand-pull inflation). Other than that it is not constrained except politically.
Sure, he’s said he won’t go all 14th Amendment on us, but a successful legal challenge to a debt ceiling would take this gun out of the Congress’ hands once and for all. The legal doctrine should be that if Congress appropriates money to spend on something, well, it’s implicitly authorized the executive to borrow if that’s what’s needed.
Anyway, I’m not so sure that this dysfunctional Congress will give him any choice but to do either the 14th Amendment thing or go with one of the “tricky” options. Dropping federal spending by 40% overnight is going to kill the economy, both domestically and internationally.
The court challenges and impeachment proceedings his doing that would bring up would almost as damaging I think. The uncertanty of the presidents actions even being legal would make people want to avoid buying debt as they wont know if it was lawfully extended.
Finally some sane discussion in the media. Lets hope this or the Trillion $ coin gets used as plan B.
