No345.
Yes, the picture from the yearbook is different from dressing up like Michael Jackson.
For those who don’t follow the actual story:
- Northram denies that the blackface picture is him.
- Part of that denial includes him saying that if it were him, he would remember it, because he remembers dressing up like Michael Jackson and darkening his skin, which he didn’t consider offensive at the time, but now realizes was offensive and a mistake.
As you say, it’s not the same thing as dressing in actual blackface.
Some more totally not racist stuff, from the same medical school yearbook.
…in blackface.
Man, if I was the editor of that yearbook, I’d be starting to sweat.
For the folks that want the real story:
- Northram apologized for appearing in that picture, confirming that it was him but saying it didn’t represent who he is today. He made no offer to resign.
- Northram did a full 180, denying that he appeared in the picture despite apologizing for being in the picture a day earlier.
It’s fine if you just don’t believe him. But that’s immaterial to the discussion regarding his darkening his skin while dressing as Michael Jackson.
Just pointing out the facts. You’ve framed it as if he never apologized for being in the picture, as if he came right out and denied it, which just isn’t true.
The idea that people were dressing in blackface on any meaningful large scale in the 1980s is just wrong. It was not widely acceptable. The only real examples to support that position have been a few comedic movies, and comedies push the envelope, successfully or not successfully, all the time, but that doesn’t mean blackface a a racist tool hadn’t been talked about for decades prior.
Hey, take a look at this piece, pay special attention to the ignorance is not an excuse piece because it’s often used an an excuse, a get out of racist jail card too often accepted by people who don’t want to see others held responsible in the off chance that they might be held responsible to something they don’t themselves. The problem here is blackface is known. They even teach it in school, you know, Birth of Nation as well as others.
I think we all understand why blackface is offensive, today.
That is talking about people using that excuse TODAY. But even beyond the differences between today and 30 years ago, that section of the article offers literally zero explanation for why ignorance is no excuse.
It just says it, then offers no supporting argument at all for why that’s the case.
You could deny the very possibility of ignorance, and claim it’s just feigning ignorance. But actual ignorance itself would, of course, be an excuse. Doing offensive things without realizing they are offensive is, clearly, not the same as not caring that they offend… Or doing them with the implicit intention of causing offense.
It’s a common excuse. Birth of a Nation isn’t just taught today either. It was taught decades ago… you know, when I was in K-12 AND before that. Speaking of which…
Are you going to demand credentials from anyone else or just me? I don’t recall anyone else having to verify their years of existence in order to be allowed to discuss this topic.
I feel like we aren’t getting anything out if this, I’ll just yield.
You can do whatever you want. You asked for credentials from one person, which is problematic but here’s the thing.
If blackface was as common as you seem to think it was, then our dear politician would have lots of material to work with when he talks about a “different” time and his claim to his Michael Jackson blackface days wasn’t meant to be racist. I suspect it will be significantly more difficult for him to find, than you think it is, millions of yearbooks and photos with blackface in it from 80s that isn’t also attributed to a generally racist group.
And whether he bought that yearbook or not, I find it pretty hard to believe he didn’t know those pictures were there. People still look, and it seems like he didn’t object to it or you’d think he would remember that and that he wasn’t in the picture himself when he did.
It’s because i know generally how old most of the people on the forum are based on past conversations.
Anecdotally, I grew up in Texas during that time and can’t recall ever seeing anyone in blackface, or thinking it was acceptable.
I am sure you have what you felt was legit reasons to ask me that. I just don’t think you see how that looks. We talk about history, politics, countries, climate change, all kinds of topics on this board and it is exceedingly rare for someone ask “were you there?” Also, I’ve mentioned my age more than once, had entire conversations about Oregon Trail babies, X and Millenials, people have even said hey I think we’re close to the same age, and I’ve said, yeah I think so too.
I just want you to think how often you see people ask “were you there?” on QT3 as if a yes or no will somehow completely invalidate what they’re saying. Other boards, maybe, but here? I don’t think that’s a common requirement. In addition, you required that go into detail about my childhood in order to prove I know what I know. How often do you think happens?
This prove you are able to participate in this conversation shtick that happens to me more than once around here… I don’t think you fully understand that experience which is why I also don’t think you’re doing it from a harsh place in the heart.
But whether you are black, white, Chinese, Japanese, lived in the artics, was almost in the grave or just born in the 80s, it is simply not true that blackface was widespread or acceptable in the 80s. There was a lot of debates about specific movies, but Hollywood does not really make money based on doing conventional and they have a lot of successes and missteps when they try to do certain things like make political commentary. That doesn’t mean if your local school bus driver showed up in blackface to a local Halloween party people wouldn’t be horrified, because unless it was full of racist people… they would be, average people would be.
I was, that’s why if you look at my exact phrasing, I went out of my way to avoid offending. Clearly, that was not good enough.
I had asked it because I had thought that you were in your early to mid thirties at the latest.
You might be surprised by the experiences one encounters in this forum.
This was never the suggestion.
But again, I’ve already yielded the argument to you.
I think it was T. Greg Doucette on Twitter who said, “Welcome to Virginia in the 80’s, where every one was racist as fuck.” I suspect there will be tons of these sorts of things.
You say that like I haven’t been on these forums almost as long as you have. I can understand your confusion though based on how some interactions suggest I walked through the door yesterday, like some stranger no one can trust or knows anything about.
The important part here is these racists knew they were racists.
I graduated HS in Northern VA in 1979 and then went to VA Tech in Blacksburg. Very racist at that time.