That’s ridiculous, considering they just released an expansion two days ago. That’s not maintenance mode.

I get that they might be wanting to move onto a Destiny 3 or other title but there’s 0 indication of it as of today.

How are folks feeling about the new battle pass system? I’m not a fortnite player, so I have no experience with battle passes, and the friends I’m playing with all seem to have different information on what the “premium” pass gets you vs the free version.

From what I’ve been able to gather, the premium pass (10 bux) will give you access to a more lucrative reward path, and seasonal activities/quests.

Can anyone confirm?

I just have to figure out whether I want to put more time in to this. I recall liking the combat a lot, but the context right now is so confusing. Maybe I’ll just noodle around shooting things and see if it’s worth trying to understand the Byzantine structure.

This may be the worst way to jump a returning player back into a game from a long absence. Nothing is explained. No changes are detailed. Just, here ya go! You’re level 750 now, and nothing works the way you remember it!

Yeah, the lack of onboarding is a little weird.

It’s especially odd given that they are apparently trying to sell us on this as a long-term investment of time and money. If they want me to engage with them, they need to entice me into playing stuff that I enjoy, and then string me along. They seem to have, um, gotten it backwards.

Bungie doesn’t consider it in maintenance.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/destiny-2s-5-year-plan-means-you-shouldnt-expect-d/1100-6469912/

I think we are disagreeing on the meaning of “maintenance mode”, I don’t intend it in the sense development stopped.

Shadowkeep is a small expansion. It doesn’t introduce anything new. It juggles a lot of stuff so that it can be stretched over the next year. The moon is mostly a reused asset, as is everything else. The new tutorial is a mission from Destiny 1. It’s less than half the content of Forsaken, overall. Armor 2.0, that is considered a HUGE change, in practice is about taking the old modules and shifting them around with a different framework. They are taking the old stuff and rearranging it to keep it feeling fresh.

It doesn’t mean the game’s over, just that the studio focuses its work on something else while Destiny 2 is kept alive as a source of revenue.

Without some sort of live content Destiny 2 would bring no money in, and would be only a significant server cost, and Bungie would have significant lay offs within a couple of years without a big publisher that puts in the money. Leaving Activision also brings in problems.

They also already announced they are working on more projects not even related to Destiny. Bungie is a studio of 600 people and it’s ridiculous that the very best they can pull off is a rejuggling of an old game without significant advances.

The studio is so big that “maintenance mode” can keep Destiny 2 alive with a minimum of content. And that’s what they are doing.

Correction: Bungie doesn’t want you to think Destiny is in maintenance.

They need that revenue so that Destiny 3 can exist. But they don’t have a Destiny 3 to sell NOW. So they tell you it doesn’t exist so that you keep paying for Destiny 2. The marketing hype today is Shadowkeep and F2P.

What is clear is that Destiny 3 must have already seen significant setbacks in the development, and it won’t be ready as soon they expected. So now they have to repurpose Destiny 2 to stay alive a little longer. To do that they need a minimum of content or the players wouldn’t spend any money on it.

They are in a VERY delicate equilibrium because they absolutely need Destiny 2 to bring the revenue.

I had an uneasy feeling about the way they are changing “seasonal” content, and this post has crystalized my feelings on the state of D2 post-shadowkeep. Good stuff.

It’s not the complete picture though.

Destiny is a big game and the sum of its parts, in the way it’s a live, “endless” game with a core of fun gameplay (a good engine, good music, spectacular setpieces, good feeling in general).

So even the tiny drops of content aren’t to be judged separate from the rest. They add to the rest and work in unison.

So it’s also true that current Destiny is in its best shape, and worthwhile to play even with all its flaws.

If it was bad I wouldn’t be here.

I also think of the “genre” as a two branched trinities. The classic branch is: Diablo 3 (that’s truly dead now), Grim Dawn and Path of Exile. And then the shooter branch: Destiny 2, Warframe and The Division.

Path of Exile & Warframe are the true staples of REAL focused ongoing development. As a significant effort to keep the game always up to date.

Destiny 2 and The Division are instead more classically designed to be eventually replaced, rather than being evolved. Destiny 2 is trying to get stretched, but it’s not technically built to scale (and they have significant issue with the production pipeline).

How is it for completely new players?

I downloaded it and played through the very first bits in the old spaceport. Seems OK. I can’t decide whether it’s worth investing real time in the game, though.

It’s hard to say because the substantial amount of content, in the way of story missions, has been made too easy, starting from a base where it was too easy already.

So playing those missions now that everyone is over-level by default will feel quite bland.

You can enjoy the graphic, the music, the setpieces. But gameplay being too easy is a problem. And this applies to all the content up to a week ago, essentially.

Now everyone is at 750. That means that most players who own Shadowkeep go right into that mini-campaign. The campaign normally carries you to 900, and that’s where the grind for “poweful rewards” begins, that pushes you above in small steps. That is important for those players who gear up to prepare for the raid.

Without Shadowkeep you can fill the gap between 750 to 900 doing whatever you want, including the legacy story content above (or quest for exotics, and all that stuff).

You can as well close your firegroup and try to launch some heroic missions and solo strikes (which instead will be substantially harder, so they give you a better feel of what the game is about).

The new “newbie” mission you have sends you on the planets open zones to do some public events and other missions. Then they send you to play crucible (PvP), Gambits (PvP mixed with PvE), and strikes. Essentially the mission tries to show you what the endgame activities look like and the type of variety the game offers.

No matter the path you pick, you should still generally level up and acquire better gear.

There is essentially nothing that draws the line between a new and old player. The story is confusing for everyone, so the best you can do is go on youtube and search for “my name is byf”. He has a recent video, 4 hours long, titled “The Complete Story of Destiny”.

There are actually a bunch of youtube channels that are specialized on Destiny and might be useful, not as general introductions, but to see what’s going on: Datto, FireteamChat, xHOUNDISHx, Mtashed, Aztecross Gaming, DPJ, Ninja Pups and probably tons more.

Destiny is more like an hobby than a game.

This is simple and decent:

Thanks, I will give that a look.

I’ve just found out two amazing things.

Both break the game in ways that fix it (yes).

Maybe there’s a way to override the game design and do manually something similar to what I wrote above… I need to do some more research as the math in the patch notes doesn’t match with that in the game.

Patch:
“When enemies are 100 Power levels or higher above the player, they are immune to damage”

I’m trying to shoot at enemies that are 88 powers level above, they are immune to damage.

…But I’m now 88 power level BELOW story content. Even if all characters are now way above.

I FOUND A WAY (if the math in the game worked as advertised)

Ok…its clear you have a locked in view of this game and are gonna read into anything posted what confirms your belief in it. No point in continuing.

Starting from the simple cool stuff:

See what I have there? It’s the tutorial gun from Destiny 1, that is now part of the tutorial mission in Destiny 2.

What most people might not realize is that due to the current changes to the systems in the game, the tutorial gun is now close to the BEST GUN in the game.

All legacy content up to a week ago, including all story content, main game, Osiris, Warmind and Forsaken is content that was built for a power level well below 750. This means no upgrade counts against that content. So the tutorial gun becomes automatically a monster of a weapon to mow down enemies at an insane speed, for ALL content excluding endgame. The way damage is calculated now makes this gun counter intuitively great.

I always thought the Khvostov was the best gun in Destiny. It’s the only one that has that old school WW2 look in pitch black. The only gun that looks vaguely real. All other stuff is neon colored fancy sci-fi stuff that usually either looks like a toy, or really kitsch.

The Khvostov shoots, handles, sounds and looks BETTER than everything else.

And because of how the game works now, not only it becomes something you can actually use, but it’s actually ideal for all content, with zero mechanical reasons to upgrade.

There were only two problems to this. One is that you only obtain it by creating a brand new character, so that you can play the new tutorial. Turns out this is false: EVERYONE can grab the Khvostov from the weapon collections. So all characters can grab and use it as soon they want.

The other problem is that it’s a white weapon that cannot be upgraded. So I thought it was viable only for the content up to 750, so that for example for Shadowkeep and future content you still had to swap it for something newer. This is also false: the power level of the weapon in the collections grows with your character (it stays just 20 power behind). So you can re-acquire it every time you want to have it at higher power levels, making it ideal for ALL current AND future content (outside of raids, power level will cap at 941, but it can be pushed EVEN HIGHER with the artifact, so you could ideally use it even in raids if you really wanted).

The tutorial gun works efficiently for ALL the content in the game. I’m not joking. And this becomes my main gun from this point onward. I’m never going to replace it. Bungie breaks the game, I play it broken. Fight me.

Now something more complex…

I was ranting above because with the forced level up to 750 power level automatically makes all legacy content too easy, and so not fun to play.

…But then I noticed that I never cleared out the inventory on my main character. So I have some pieces of armor that have… zero power level.

This means that by equipping these underpowered pieces I can go BELOW 750 even in the current system. Essentially de-leveling my character under the requirement, potentially making all legacy story content challenging and fun to play again!

The problem with this is that I’m easily one of the very few that for whatever reason has these old pieces at zero power still in the inventory. And it’s probable that they can’t be acquired anymore.

But this is false:

I’m not sure, but this should work on every account/every class.

In the collections they left a SINGLE piece of armor, the only piece of equipment in the WHOLE game, that wasn’t upgraded to 750. It stays instead at 21.

This means that EVERYONE can use that single piece as a sort of “hack” to effectively de-level their character to do the legacy content.

It can be done!

If you have that piece at 21, and all other slots to 750 (the way every new character starts the game), then the total resulting power is 658. Since all content now scales to 750, this means being 92 levels UNDER requirement. Pretty much when enemies begin to scale.

Meaning that by then upgrading other slots above 750, while keeping the single slot at 21, you can cherry pick your power level precisely within that whole range. It’s fantastic because now there’s a practical way to manually tune the difficulty of the game to whatever you want. Just by nudging your power level up and down that scale as you see fit.

If for example you have all other slots to 850, the total becomes 746, that is essentially close to the default 750.

…Sadly all this doesn’t work equally well in practice, from my initial testing.

I tried to play the first mission in Warmind, loading up my brand new Khvostov at 750, and a total power level of 658, but all the enemies in the first room were invulnerable. So I tried to load up some better stuff, but since I didn’t progress very far I was only able to reach a power level of 662. That’s in theory 88 levels below content, but the enemies were still completely invulnerable. And this is weird. The new system should scale to a maximum of 100 levels.

Then I tried Forsaken, enemies still invulnerable.

But then I tried both Osiris and the public zone on the Earth, and even at the lower power level of 658 the enemies were not only now killable, but they were dying just as usual.

My suspicion is that the system isn’t so well designed, and that enemies go from downright invulnerable to easy to kill without any middle ground. So it’s possible that all this manual tweaking doesn’t offer much of a concrete mileage to fix the difficulty.

Tomorrow I’ll try to research this a bit better. I need paradoxically to have higher level items from Shadowkeep to see if I can find the exact point where enemies go from invulnerable to killable, in Warmind. And see if in Osiris I can find the point where they go from killable to unkillable. But to do this I instead go lower than 658, and I can only do this with the one character that has armor with zero power level. (it’s still not enough, the minimum I can go is 656)

The problem is that if the scaling is so horrid as how it appears, you have to be as close as possible to the lowest floor, and that means that you can play three rooms with enemies easy to kill, and then find another room where enemies suddenly become invulnerable to damage.

In any case… there might be at least a tiny bit of margin to make all that legacy content challenging and fun to play. Maybe.

What is “the weapon collections”? This sounds great, I also loved the tutorial gun from Destiny 1.

Awesome! Oh my god, I’m back in!

Awwww, damn it, what a roller coaster ride your post was. Fuck.

When you go to the inventory screen there are a bunch more tabs at the top. One for the Destiny equivalent of achievements (triumphs), and next to it “collections”.

This tracks all the loot you discover in the game, but once discovered you can use to pull everything out of it, paying its basic cost in materials.

The Khvostov should be unblocked by default.

It took me a while too to realize that all characters could grab it, and that it was actually a weapon that worked great for everything. It’s simply counter intuitive.

About the rest I still need to do tests.

This is also a surprise because I thought they didn’t touch any of the old content, so the best that it could be achieved would be Forsaken, since the lowest power level obtainable through this method is 280, as far as I know. That’s already higher than both Osiris and Warmind, including the main campaign.

But then in Warmind the monsters were invulnerable, so it means they were set even higher than 750. If they’ve done this for everything then the system might work (and counter intuitively again, leveling armor 2.0 for this legacy content provide an even better control on the difficulty).

It’s also possible that SOME enemies were scaled to 750, and some not.

There’s an exotic sniper rifle called DARCI that gives you direct information on the enemies power level, so it would be REALLY EASY to understand all of this. But there’s no way to acquire it beside random rolls, it seems. So I’ll have to figure it out through trial & error.

A post from reddit (some people get it)

Since I’m at it:

I was thinking Destiny has the “perfect” difficulty system. In some cases death is entirely without consequences. There’s a room with 20 enemies, you kill 10, die, there are still only 10 left, you only get a few seconds of downtime.

Then there are sections where instead if you die all enemies reset too. So you have to go all the way through without dying.

And this is SO MUCH BETTER than old school PC gaming, save-as-you-want kind of deal. I played many games saving compulsively every three seconds. Kill enemy, save. Kill enemy, save. Getting hit once, reload game.

Online gaming has removed the possibility to save anywhere, and I’m glad. (you can’t rely on players to create their difficulty, as we’ve seen above)