I was in church this morning, and the theme or whatever was persecution. The pastor’s example of the persecution of the church in Canada was a minister who was forced to renounce publicly made slanderous statements about homosexuality. Now I realized that my denomination was not exactly in favor of homosexuality, but I didn’t realize that they actually thought they could say whatever they want about whoever they want in public. I’m also noticing more and more that the “sermons” are more like propaganda than actual lessons, and I’m getting dangerously close to just saying, “fuck it, I’m out” (I’m more there for my family than myself, they’ll flip their shit if I tell them this).
You need to stand up for what is right. Churches can become a real training ground for hateful indoctrination when the pastors running the place decide that they don’t like how society works.
If you do choose to leave, I hope you don’t just bow out quietly by simply no longer going. Instead, I hope that you’ll stand up and repudiate the vicar/pastor’s message mid-sermon before leaving. While there are probably people in the congregation who gleefully lap up the propaganda, there are probably others who feel the same as you but don’t want to rock the boat. Rock away.
I think you should definitely speak out against hateful things said during the service. However, I don’t think the Canadian government should be in the business of forcing pastors to recant their statements.
This would not only get me a lot of shit from my family, but would be quite unsuccessful. Young people there are a very small minority, and all the old people there are very stuck in their immigrant ways. These are the type of old people that go around shoving Bibles in everyone’s face and then returning to the church to cry about how others don’t react well to it, followed by everyone praying for the heathens to repent and realize that only our narrow denomination is the path to salvation, and morals be damned, all that matters is that you’re there for an hour on sunday.
EDIT: Here is what happened, the title is sensationalist and not really accurate.
Important is this:
Boisson wrote a letter to the editor of his local Red Deer, Alberta, newspaper in 2002 denouncing the advance of homosexual activism as “wicked” and stating: “Children as young as five and six years of age are being subjected to psychologically and physiologically damaging pro-homosexual literature and guidance in the public school system; all under the fraudulent guise of equal rights.”
Unacceptable.
EDIT2: I’d like to clarify that I knew stuff like this happened, but I just thought those were the wingnuts who gave my religion a bad name. I was shocked to hear my minister defend this sort of thing.
If you catch shit from your family for doing the right thing and standing up for what you believe in then you need to cut them loose too.
It would just be a meaningless gesture. I don’t know how ignorant/intolerant my family is on this subject as we don’t really discuss those things at all, and I don’t want to burn any of my bridges just yet.
Is it “hateful indoctrination” to teach that homosexuality is sinful? I haven’t actually been to church in years, but from what I remember, it was pretty common for pastors of evangelical churches (and not just “far right” ones) to use terms like “vile perversions”, “wicked”, and “evil” to describe abortion, pornography, drug usage, and homosexuality. It’s their way of emphasizing that Christians are in a Satan-dominated world that is intent on breaking down Christian rules about sin and morality.
Boisson wrote a letter to the editor of his local Red Deer, Alberta, newspaper in 2002 denouncing the advance of homosexual activism as “wicked” and stating: “Children as young as five and six years of age are being subjected to psychologically and physiologically damaging pro-homosexual literature and guidance in the public school system; all under the fraudulent guise of equal rights.”
The speech in that letter doesn’t seem overly excessive to me, certainly nowhere near the “Fred Phelps” school of speech. I can understand not wanting to be part of a church that espouses these beliefs, but I don’t think a legal punishment was warranted. If that’s a crime, then lots of conservative pastors are guilty of it.
Whoa, putting words in my mouth? Sol said that not me.
EDIT: And it’s fine to say it in a church full of people that believe the same way as you, not fine to mail it in to the local newspaper.
No, you really don’t. Families can disagree and give each other shit for stupid crap, but they’re still family and this doesn’t even come close to something you’d need to cut them loose about. Stop going to church if you want, but don’t go out of your way to piss off your parents.
Exactly, I’m not going to burn my most reliable bridges over something that upsets me but doesn’t actually affect me.
Whoops, sorry, I’d copied you at first and then thought Sol’s quote better addressed what I was questioning, but I forgot to update who said it.
And I disagree, but I guess it’s just a matter of opinion.
I think making a break from your family over this would be dumb; they are still your family.
But… if it isn’t the right church for you, you should find one that fits better. http://www.beliefnet.com/ might be one way to look.
I go to a UU church; some of our pastors were raised as fundamentalists. People grow and change.
If your family actively undermines you or prevents you from doing the right thing then that’s an utter betrayal of the entire concept of ‘family’. If they’re not proud of you for doing the right thing and acting on your beliefs then fuck 'em, they’re an anchor. Do the right thing and let the cards fall where they will.
Sorry, but these Canadian kangaroo courts are completely indefensible. Shame on you for supporting that Orwellian bullshit.
I don’t think it’s ever that easy to simply disown one’s family over a matter of principle which (I infer from the OP) doesn’t directly affect you.
^---- This.
I don’t know if I’d like the idea of calling racists and homophobes members of my family. Let the cards fall where they fall, and stand up for what is right.
What would Obama do?
Racists? Okay… be civil or leave my thread Sol. My church isn’t an indoctrination center, I’ve just realized they are ignorant, and racism is neither part of my religion nor mentioned at all in this thread.