Directors who fell from up high

As an action movie, though, it’s fucking awesome.

If you don’t watch it expecting a serious sci-fi movie, certainly. It’s a nice spectacle with some cool stuff.

But I wasn’t aware that was what Cameron wanted to do with his franchise.

I don’t like it, because of what it COULD have been. It’s “shit” because it destroyed what I consider a great franchise.

Exactly how Cameron bitched about the Alien franchise being destroyed. The irony, you know?

AvP - though inferior as an action movie to T2 - is the EXACT SAME KIND OF MOVIE.

That very problem is in the first movie too. Humans make John Connor because Skynet tries to kill John Connor who therefore would never have been created if it wasn’t for Skynet trying to kill him.

I don’t mind that circular theme, it’s part of the strength of time paradox movies :)

That’s not correct at all. Humans “make” John Connor? What does that mean, exactly?

John Connor would have been born regardless of any coming robot superpocalypse. If there had never been a Skynet, he just would have been some dirtbag kid ripping off ATMs and bouncing from foster home to foster home. In the Skynet future, he helps fight against the robots. He didn’t come into being because of the robots.

Then why do you like the first Terminator so much, which doesn’t have a paradox?

Wait terminator 1 was a serious science fiction film?

Of course there’s a paradox. They don’t manage to kill the mother, but they will still be able to invent the machine again - just like they did the last time. The paradox is that Connor becomes the way he is, because of what his mother goes through.

But there are other strengths to the movie, including just the basic premise and the fact that the material is treated with a respect for the audience.

How would John Connor have been born if there were no Skynet? His father impregnated his mother while being sent back in time to protect her so her (and his) son could be born. Without Skynet, Reese doesn’t exist in that time period.

T1: Fun little (relatively) low-budge action movie.

T2: Bloated big-budget action movie that takes itself way, way too seriously, has an annoying kid sidekick, and isn’t as fun as its predecessor.

Of course “bloated,” “takes itself too seriously” and “isn’t as fun as its predecessors” were to become Cameron’s credo for the years to come.

Oh, yeah. Damn. Well, in that case, Terminator sucks too.

edit: beaten to it.

I wouldn’t call it trolling, per se, but no, I wasn’t being entirely serious.

Were I trolling, I would have suggested that Peter Jackson, masterful director of Bad Taste and Braindead, fell off significantly with the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

The first Terminator doesn’t have a paradox?

Am I the only person who saw a movie where John Connor’s father comes from the future? No Terminator, no time travel, no John Connor?

And Terminator 1 is a slasher like movie with SciFi trappings. It’s still a great movie, one that I enjoy immensely, but it’s still pretty much a “indestructible killer taking out everything in it’s path” movie, except instead of the inexplicably hard to kill psycho, we get a Terminator.

And George Lucas must top every “Directors who fell” list.

John Carpenter would be near the top of any sensible list.

Not necessarily. There seems to be some debate as to how much directorial skill he ever had, and how much was a result of his team, notable his ex-wife / editor.


you make some valid points about T2.

It’s still one of my favourite movies ever, and I guess the movie works so much better for me than for you is because I kind of blend out the original Terminator movie (which I also love) and see T2 as disconnected from it. I dont know if that makes sense?

However, this “sequel invalidating the previous movie” is totally what ruined T3 for me. I hated it, and I felt it took a big dump on T2. I hated it so much that I never even bothered to watch T4.

That would be just channeling your inner-Alexlitel …

Since it’s impossible to know just how talented a director truly is, all one can quantify is the fall between what one first thought of the director’s talent, and how low that opinion has become.

I thought George Lucas was awesome. Then I realized my favorite SW movie wasn’t directed by him. But okay, still awesome.

Then the prequels happened.

It is… that’s why I preferred 3 over it - it was even more action packed and had a better chase scene. But 2 was still a great action movie.

Oh, how could I forget Shyamalan! 6th Sense was awesome. Unbreakable was ok, but everything else was disgusting.

You’re crazy, The Abyss was great.

How about Movie Series Which Fell From Up High: T1 to T4, Godfather to Godfather 3, Star Wars to The Phantom Menace (or the other two)…