DnD online

Spoofy, 8.5 hours to level 36 is 14 minutes a level. :shock:
It would take longer than that to travel between the zones…

Maybe, but it makes it more fun. When I’m looking at my toon, it’s harder to identify with the character.


So, wow, I’m sorry. I had no idea there were people successfully playing MMORPGS in 1st person mode. My WOW pvp hunter could never hack it in 1st person mode. Too many threats come at oblique angles, and I have to be on the look out for threats from behind (ie, rogue attacks).

In any case, my NDA prevents me from confirming or denying the premise of your statement, so someone else will have to.

The buzz I’ve been hearing about this game isn’t too positive either. I don’t think DND has that much cachet anymore either with computer gamers.

So is it out soon?

Think it comes out in Feb '06.

I’d like to hear some of the buzz, negative or otherwise. I’ve been too busy to frequent most gaming sites of late, but am moderately interested in finding a new MMO. What are the buzz-worthy features and problems of this one? If it’s got a February launch date, I would expect open beta very soon.

Feburary 06? You sure you do not mean Feb 07 or Feb 08? Not that I am implying anything at all by that comment. Nope, no sir. I could be talking about anything but DDO.

I edited my message. That should have been 8.5 DAYS. Or 204 hours.

Of course, at least 4-8 of those hours were spent AFK, but that still a pretty embarrasing figure for somebody that’s supposed to be spending time with a wife and two toddlers.

I’m a bad husband and father and it’s all WoWs fault.

I think no soul is a good word. I have never liked a game from Turbine. They always sound cool but when I actually play them I don’t like them. Suck is too strong a term but they are just not enjoyable.

Ebberon I think suffers from the same issue. No soul. So combining these two together I think was a very bad idea. Better to go with something like the Forgotten Realms which has 20+ years of lore associated with it. Then with a nameless and unexplored continent from a campaign world which only has 2 years of lore.

I appreciate what they are doing with the dungeons. They sound cool. But the other changes to the core mechanics of DnD sound wrong. So you are going to put off DnD people who want to play it due to mechanics changes. And then you are further creating alienation by not picking a well known campaign world…

I’ll still try it because its DND and D&D has too much of sentimental hold over my life not to support it. But WOW is the bar now. If you are not doing what WOW is doing and doing it better you are in trouble I think.

I think NWN is the best simulation of the face to face experience. DND On-line doesn’t sound like DND to me.

I think you can get away being a healer/blaster type in FPV. But I always play a warrior type and its so much easier to see who needs help by being able to see the whole party. That way you don’t have to wait for chat to react.

Then again I have the unique experience of playing games with my wife and we nearly always play two very complimentary classes like warrior/cleric. Making survival a lot easier.

But hey, each to their own. Niether style is better or right.

Regarding your first point, when I talked with the D&D Online developers at GenCon, they told me that they had initially set the world in the Forgotten Realms, and it turned out to be a nightmare. Every rock, tree and dngeons in the FR has been explored a million times in the last 20 years by heroes far more powerful than any player. The purpose of Eberron was to create virgin territory and give the players a sense of exploration, as though they truly were discovering this region for the first time. There’s plenty of lore for Eberron, it just hasn’t been discovered/written yet. In fact, some of it will be created in D&D Online and feed back into the paper and pencil game.

Regarding your second point about doing what WoW does but doing it better, I’m sorry, but that’s just nonsense. We go through that every time a game franchise raises the design bar and what we end up with are legions of cookie cutter clones that REALLY have no soul. We already have a game that does what WoW does – it’s called WoW, and it’s a wonderful game,. thankyouverymuch. Taking on WoW with gameplay mechanics that are basically just ultra-refined EverQuest designs (which is all WoW really is), is tantamount to commercial suicide. At this point WoW is the Microsoft of it’s niche. That doesn;t mean that there aren;t opportunities out there, but it means exploiting the gameplay areas that WoW doesn;t cover – and there are plenty – see City of Heroes and City of Villains or most of NCSoft’s line-up.

That’s bullshit about FR… WOTC just didn’t want them using it.

And if you’ve ever read box sets like “The North”, you’ll know that there’s SO much room in the FR for new stuff that the excuse was just complete bs.

Most likely that was HIS opinion about why HE didn’t like it. That doesn’t change the fact that WOTC doesn’t want anyone doing anything with it anymore, they’re pushing the one they don’t have to pay Ed Greenwood and company for.

As for DDO, that’s quite dissapointing. I will probably try it anyway, but damn.

Thanks for the reply Delsyn

I can see the sense of this argument but I don’t agree. Unless they intend on breaking the lore seriously (like Elminster becomes a 20 year old Drow or some such) I don’t see the problem. Or just set it on the FR equivalent of Xendrik. The FR Aztec America type continent <insert name>. That way you still have access to the FR lore, fanbase and big names but still have the freedom to do what you like.

Or set it in Greyhawk. Greyhawk was specifically left “empty” lore wise to allow DMs to build what they want.

I think its closer to the truth that WOTC wants to push Eberron for whatever reason. But I am neither an FR, Ebberron or Greyhawk fan (Planescape for me) so the choice of worlds isn’t such a big deal. I do think its a design issue. I am not the only person who feels that Ebberron has some cool ideas without the soul of FR and Greyhawk. So I think this will work against the game.

That’s not what I was getting at. I don’t want a mechanically identical game to WOW (just like I don’t want a mechanical equivalent of EQ). But I do want the things that make WOW fun translated - the fast gameplay, the quick leveling, the quest system which dispenses with grinding (or at least does a great job of covering that up).

I moved from UO to EQ originally because I felt EQ improved and fixed a lot of the problems I had with UO. I then tried a bunch of other games in between EQ and WOW but they were all essentially clones of EQ IMO. WOW was the next enjoyable iteration that broke from the mould somewhat.

That’s what I am more getting at. Then again pretty much every CRPG is based somehow on the DnD model. So its kind of ironic that DnD Online seems to suffer from the things I don’t like about pre-WOW MMOS - in particular the level grind. Time will tell I guess.

did you read the preview at gamespy? It sounds like level grind will not be an issue, because it’s not the point. I love the fact you don’t get experience for killing things, but for completing objectives. That means by definition there is none of the grinding that you see in most of these.

You can still grind quests.

You can still grind quests.[/quote]
in fact, you have to. also, make lots of friends… the game isn’t made for solo players (it is D&D, after all).

Well I suppose you could try to game any mechanism that awards experience in some manner. The idea behind quests is that they provide more interesting and meaningful content than just endlessly killing creatures, even if the difference is primarily one of presentation or pacing.

Maybe you could have a PS Torment style MMO where most experience is awarded by talking to people. But then maybe one could grind NPC conversations.

If you like, the whole concept of experience points and levels can be dispensed with altogether. There’s no reason this couldn’t result in some good game design alternatives, but I don’t think the essential concept of incremental character advancement is inherently a bad thing… I think it’s one of the key hooks that has made CRPGs enjoyable for a long time.

I got some great, great, really prime oceanfront property in New Mexico for ya.

The day I see a company with a valuable IP allow a pack of gankers and catasses and board whiners define what part of that IP is, is the day said iP becomes good for toilet paper. You WILL NOT EVER see anything of any significance resulting from player actions in D&D Online ending up in the official lore. I don’t care what reasons you have to say otherwise; if that is what you’re trying to argue, you’re wrong, end of discussion. Some of Turbine’s stuff, maybe, but they’ll effectively be operating under WotC orders. As for FR being too crowded, that’s laziness talking. You might as well try to claim that Europe during WW2 is too crowded to set any new stories there. History exists. That’s the whole point. That’s why FR is fun. The world exists. Eberron doesn’t.

Your putting words in his mouth. That’s not what he said.

Not talking DDO specifically here, although most of it may (or may not) apply.

The core gameplay conceit of playing through intricately detailed and plotted hand crafted scenarios, experiencing a cohesive narrative where you are the hero, and being rewarded for completing goals rather than killing monsters is immensely attractive to me. I’ve been quietly pulling for that stuff for years, since well before AO was even announced.

It starts to deeply suck when the game has insufficient content to sustain that level of gameplay and is forced to “fake” content through random rather than handcrafted challenges and loot, grinding on mobs, or grinding on the quests themselves with artificial “difficulty levels”. This fake content is horribly tedious so pavlovian treats are required to keep customers addicted, leading to stereotypical catassery, 5000 word complaint posts on the official forums by players who are incredibly incensed but can’t actually quit, and so on.

Of course we’re talking a significant amount of quality content to sustain a MMOG player at over 20 hours per week. The only MMOG that came close to achieving this is WoW for the 1-59 game, and blizzard pretty much threw in the towel at 60.