Desslock
2061
Except just blowing up some Daleks at Gallifrey does create a lot of problems, because the status quo was that the Daleks were wiped out of all time and space - not just that they lost a battle fleet - so they couldn’t reappear anywhere, so their reappearances required them to be human-hybids or a handful of individuals who escaped for reasons explained in their episodes.
The 50th change makes their absence from the rest of the universe (and time) unexplained. And the saving of gallifrey makes the time lord reappearance at End of Time make no sense - as their motivations/actions don’t fit within the revised history.
Tom Baker being old was explained, however, in his dialogue – he is NOT the 4th doctor. He is a future version of the doctor that revisited an old form, which is why he could give advice/commentary about future events.
And I had no issue with the idea of the retcon, it just wasn’t implemented very well – but I still loved seeing the 3 doctors and overall thought this was Matt Smith’s best episode. I think he’s a good doctor who has been let down by poor writing - it’s a shame we’re losing him without him really getting a chance to bloom. I also really liked Tenant in this episode, and miss him too. And John Hurt was great - loved his comments that noted changes in how the doctors behave now, compared to the classic run. I still wish they’d put in the 8th doctor into the main story. And Eccleston, of course. Such a shame he didnt’ have a longer run.
The Daleks being destroyed isn’t a timey wimey problem at all. When Gallifrey disappeared, they were shooting at the planet, and they blew each other up. That was even specifically called out as what would happen.
Yes it was called out, and that doesn’t make it any less stupid. There was a crossfire, great. It miraculously manages to destroy every single Dalek in the universe? And the plan depends on this happening? Not so great.
Because it’s almost 30 years since he played the Doctor, even I don’t look like I did 30 years ago. If you mean the character, perhaps he wasn’t the Doctor, just a curator who knew too much. It’s mot like it would be the first time an actor has played different parts in the show. Both Freema Agyeman nad Karen Gillan played other roles before becoming companions.
Daagar
2064
Because it was partially a tribute show to all the Doctors that allowed them to get as far as having a 50th Anniversary show in the first place, and they don’t have the budget from TRON CLU-like anti-aging special effects. Same reason for having Rose be the OS; tribute show. Sometimes you just gotta go with it, even if the story is a bit convoluted as a result. Not many shows get a 50th Anniversary special.
This was a thing of beauty, thank you for sharing!
Seppey
2066
Patrick Troughton may be the best actor to play Dr Who (for more than an episode). The Tomb of the Cybermen from his era is great.
Dr. Who is often a reflection of the times it is made, so the 3rd Dr is more action/adventure/spy stuff. The 3rd Dr. episode Inferno is voted as one of the best but i dislike it so opinions can vary.
The 4th Dr is one most people think of when Dr Who is mentioned, watch the episodes where Robert Holmes was in charge, plus City of Death by Douglas Adams.
If you feel like it, the AVClub writes about classic Dr Who episodes and it can give you an idea of what is good.
Obviously, you can’t bring back Tom Baker without everyone assuming he’s the Doctor, but does he actually say he’s the Doctor? The show has used the same actors to play different characters before: Lalla Ward played Astra and Romana; Freema Agyeman was an extra in “Army of Ghosts” before becoming Martha; Peter Capaldi played an extra in “Fires of Pompeii” and John Frobisher in Torchwood. I don’t think they’ve ever used a former Doctor actor like this, but hey, first time for everything.
Plus in interviews I’ve heard, Tom Baker has been pretty emphatic that his Doctor’s story was over and he saw no reason to come back. So unless that was one big snow job by Baker, think of it as if they brought back Sean Connery to do a cameo in a Craig Bond film: a big ol’ piece of fan-service.
ShivaX
2068
Because it was his timeline or something. Basically the other two were outside of their timestreams, therefore they forget, but he wasn’t so he doesn’t. Or something. It’s Dr Who, what can I say. :)
Daagar
2069
Actually, I think you’re exactly right. They did mention how ‘they always mess with time, but now they’re going to mess with their own timeline’ which is crossing-the-streams level of ‘don’t do this’. For all the rage about discontinuity and such, they do actually do a pretty good job of at least giving a passing glance at closing major loopholes.
I agree that Baker’s story is over for all intents and purposes, but I think he was supposed to be The Doctor in some form or another. Perhaps when Smith jumped into his own timeline, his different forms started popping up in odd places throughout his life just like Clara did.
DarrenO
2071
I think I am just going to remember the 50th anniversary episode as I had a big goofy grin on my face all the way through, and a lump in my throat at the end when Tom was on screen. Between this, the Five Doctors Reboot and An Adventure in Time and Space this week has been like Christmas come early. Job done. I’ll leave the scrutiny for some other time.
Local dive bar opened early and did a viewing. Pretty fun experience. Just started getting cold here, as much as it can in central Texas, and the inside was packed. I’m pretty letdown with Clara since it seemed like she was part of a huge thing but she didn’t do much in this episode. Would have been great to see Ecc(sp?) in the War Doctor role since he’s the odd one out re: Doctors, but I could listen to John Hurt’s voice all day.
The whole 50th anniversary special was just Moffat being Moffat at his Moffat-iest. If you like his approach in general, you’ll like it. If not, you won’t.
Personally, I think he has some pretty fundamental issues with his plots. The current Doctor suffers from both the Superman problem (the Doctor isn’t going to die, so stop trying to use his death as a source of dramatic tension) and the Darth Vader problem (he started out as just a bloke in a phone booth, and now he’s The Most Important Person in The Universe). The Darth Vader problem is so bad that it even bleeds over onto his companions.
As for the Big Retcon, whatever. It feels a bit like fan-fiction. One the other hand, if you can’t do a little fan-wank during a freaking 50th anniversary special, when can you?
Did anybody else see the public-access level pre-show before the 2:30 screening? That was some epic television right there.
Oh, also, it goes without saying but Hurt was very, very good as the War Doctor. Although, I do think that the presence of Hurt and Tennant made Smith feel like a bit of a lightweight.
Eccleston does get left out in the cold on a lot of these things, but that was partly his own choice (clashes take two sides, after all, although he was the one who decided to leave). He would have been a fascinating War Doctor, but I liked the use of 8 (and Hurt, of course) and it provided a masterful explanation of why we never saw much more of him than a few hours. I felt like that strengthened a connection (7 to 9) that was a little weak and hurt my immersion a bit if I throught too long about it.
Yeah, um … “epic” … lol. It’s always good to see Grant, but I could have done without pretty much all of it. It’s a half hour I’ll never get back.
At some point, you should just accept that maybe Doctor Who isn’t a show for you.
ElGuapo, don’t listen to Desslock. There are some great episodes in the later seasons, and some whole-season arcs that come together really well. Of all the modern finales, the first season finale seems the most (literally) deus ex machinesque.
I’ve only been watching this show on and off since 1979.
You’ve been watching the show since 1979, but you don’t understand why they would bring back Tom Baker, or why he looks thirty years older? Or Billie Piper? I never watched the older series, and even I understand what the appeal is of bringing back the most popular Doctor, who has never been back since he left the show.
If ever there is an appropriate moment for “fan service,” a 50th anniversary special is that moment. I thought this was a good episode but I’m not thrilled about the return of Gallifrey as I really liked the idea of the Last of The Time Lords.
First off, bear in mind a lot of episodes for the first two Doctors are still lost, although apparently they recently recovered a bunch of Second Doctor episodes from Nigeria of all places. But the point is you can’t see all of the earliest Doctor Whos, unfortunately.
Like a lot of American Doctor Who fans, I first saw the show when it aired on PBS in the mid to late 80s. Tom Baker was definitely the most prominent Doctor in those days; which is good because I still consider him the best of the classic Doctors. [Though I've seen hardly any episodes with the first two and only a few with Pertwee, so that might not be entirely fair.] I never really warmed to Davison or Colin (aka the Lesser Baker); plus I think the quality of the writing really went downhill during the80s. By the time McCoy stepped into the TARDIS, it really was time to put the show out to pasture.
FYI, Netflix has selected classic episodes available for streaming, inc. most of the Key to Time arc; and several more on DVD.
Based on their cryptic conversation, it’s clear Moffat is playing with audience expectations. I think you can tell yourself Tom Baker’s appearance means whatever you want to believe it means. Alternate-timeline version of the Fourth Doctor who retires and becomes the Curator? Future-self Doctor who regenerated into a familiar form and came back to talk to one of his previous incarnations? Psychic projection (hey, if the Moment can take on Rose’s form, something could take on the Doctor’s)? Or just some mysterious old guy who happens to have Fourth’s aging face? Take your pick! Invent your own explanation!
Or do what I do: chalk it up to Moffat’s tendency to indulge in time-wimey bullshit masquerading as fan-service instead of competent plotting.
