Dom2: Ermor

So Soul Gate Ermor?[/quote]
Funny, but it kind of triggered something for me. What do folks think about Ermor in this game? I played them once against the AI, and found it to be kind of a cakewalk. Maybe that’s because the AI doesn’t adjust to Ermor well. But when I play against AI Ermor, it’s still a total pain in the ass, much more so than playing against other AI empires on the same difficulty setting. (Yeah, I know, build priests every turn. I do.) I guess what I’m getting at is, do people think Ermor is overpowered at all, or is it just me? I don’t think it’s a game-breaking superpower, but it does seem to be somewhat better than many of the other empires (or maybe it’s just easier to play well?). Especially if you play to its strengths when designing your pretender (e.g., you can easily afford some “misfortune” and “chaos” since that stuff doesn’t matter to Ermor as much as it does to others).

I haven’t played Ermor before, but I agree they can be a nasty enemy. But, I think I’ve only really faced the ashen empire variant. At least, that’s what I think it is, since they tend to waste every province their dominion takes over. Do all the Ermor variants do this? I didn’t even realize ermor had human troops until I started messing around with an ermor pretender last night.

Oh, yeah, I was talking about Ashen Empire (I think Soul Gate does that too, but I’m not sure). I’ve never played as (or against) the “normal” Ermor. I would imagine it would be more balanced. Ashen, though, seems to really kick some ass. You get lots of points by cranking your Death scale and upping Misfortune and Chaos (you’ll get lots of negative events, but since you don’t need people or gold, it’s not like you care), which allows you to really up your spell paths and holy. I think you could up stuff like Sloth too, although I haven’t tried it.

The “lay waste” thing also works strongly in your favor: anyone fighting a back-and-forth war with Ermor is losing to Ermor. And it allows you to inflict serious damage on your enemy just through Dominion spread, which is nice. Add in that your troops are almost all aquatic, and your high-level priests, and you have a pretty badass empire.

While I’ve never played against Ermor mp, I know exactly what I’d do if it happened. The second I ran into an Ashen Empire Ermorian province I’d throw everything I had into flattening them. I’d also message every other player in the game with the province number and invite them to do the same. So really, the same thing I do to about any enemy.

I love playing Ermor, SP or MP. Even though it’s basically a one-trick pony, it has more style than any other empire I’ve yet played. You can agree to any alliance, sit back and let your troops mass (for free) while your dominion ensures that your allies pay the price for their folly.
Further, if you ARE invaded by right-thinking people who realize you Must Die Immediately, it’s an automatic scorched-earth defense. They win provinces where nothing grows and, within the timeframe of the game, nothing ever will.
Is Ermor overpowered? I don’t think so. There are too many spells/units/strategies specifically tailored to wiping out undead, not to mention Marignon. My single biggest balance beef is the fact that Dusk Elders can summon each other- it just feels like cheating for some reason.

Ermor attacked me in nearly every MP game :x

Ermor has a couple problems. First, they are pretty weak early on, so they can be taken down fast by a reasonable neighbor. Second, noone likes to have a successful Ermor next door, if only for the reason that the death domain will bleed over the border and damage provinces. So it’s easy to get others to ally with you against Ermor. Finally, while Ermor gets lots of units (Ashen more so that Soul) they are pretty weak units (Ashen more so than Soul). A serious army, with heavy infantry up front and a bunch of priests, can decimate 400+ Ermor units without much sweat. It helps a lot to a have access to holy-3 so your units don’t rout. It also helps to have supply-generating magic items so you don’t run into starvation.

One of the main benefits Ermor does have in MP is that some people won’t bother to help attack Ermor because the provinces are not worth any income.

I would say both of those things are required (or at least, Fanaticism is required to defend against Ermor, and supply is required to invade Ermor). When an empire’s big weakness is “Everyone will gang up on them because they’re so badass,” that’s not a bad place to be. :)

I do like that they’re so different from the other empires, and I agree that there are several undead-specific strategies that can be used (e.g., assassin with Just Man’s Cross) and that if Marignon is in the game, they’re tailor-made for wiping out Ermor.

Hello, my name is Rob, and I was a Marignonian King who let Ermor live…and will probably pay the ultimate price.

Bruce as r’yleh, and I decided to gang up on ermor early. But, I found it so easy to destroy the ermorian armies, and the value of their provinces so worthless, that I decided to hold off and instead attack what was a much more serious threat: Clark’s Jotuns. Well, I lost the Jotun war, twice. And now the Ermorians are running around with 500+ unit armies all over.

I’m not saying that if I had destroyed Ermor early that I would have won the game, the Jotuns may have had a much easier time attacking my soft underbelly if I had. But, in hindsight, I probably would have taken down ermor when I said I was going to, if for no other reason than to help out my fellow non-undead-soul-sucking-grave-crawling-maggot-infested kingdoms.

I fully expect an Arco resurgence in that game. We will bury you.

(What you don’t realize is that by maintaining no provinces other than my home fortress, I can cannily concentrate my defenses and…and…well, anyway, fuck you all.)

I think your threat is a little hollow. Arco is the very definition of impotent in that game. :)

ooo, ooo, trash talking thread! I wanna play too!

I’ve discovered that when your armies are raping and pillaging through Jotunheim lands, it is important to bring stepladders.

Hey Ry, the important question that I want to know is when you finally resorted to ‘fuck you all’ were you flipping them off through your monitor?

That always puts so much empahsis on the ‘you got me but fuck you’ defense.

:)

P.S. - I’d love to be fodder in one of these games with you guys. Sounds like a blast.

I’m currently involved in just one E-mail game. <sniff> It is a blast. The game environment is wonderfully jerk-free. Now if only everyone sucked more, and I could win… that would be ideal.

I’m looking forward to joining more games… I’m afraid that I’m not on the ball enough to actually run my own, unfortunately. BTW, Jason Lutes has set up a really nice system in which he sends a “nudge” E-mail to the last player to take his turn. That way, if we’re all waiting for just one slowpoke, he gets a gentle reminder to get hurry up. And for the record, I have been that slowpoke on several occasions.

The PBEM games are an absolute blast. I’ve played quite a bit of SP, which is definitely fun, but MP adds not only human enemies (which are much better and sneakier than the AI), but also diplomacy–something that is totally lacking in the SP game.

Sure,you say that now,but when you come running across hill and dale pursued by frost giants,who do you call for help?

I think Steve is right on the money–the worst thing about playing one of the destructive Ermor variants(from Ermor’s point of view) is that people tend to want to eradicate you quickly before the entire map gets scorched.On the other hand,Ermor is fun to play,because they are relatively straightforward,you don’t have to stress out about income and unrest,and it’s just fun to be the fucker occasionally.

I’m playing the kinder and gentler Ermor in one of Bruce’s email games,and it’s like playing a totally different race.I think the regular Ermor variant may be stronger than Ashen,although it’s harder to play.

I’m having a blast in all my multiplayer games,the most fun I’ve had in a game in a long time,and that’s saying something considering how badly I suck.As in most great multiplayer games,it’s hard to go back to playing against the computer,since there’s not much feeling of accomplishment, that way,win or lose.

Rywill,

You can go back to hiding in Acro please now. All the surrounding provinces belong to Ermor…er…I mean they belong to me.

I would say both of those things are required (or at least, Fanaticism is required to defend against Ermor, and supply is required to invade Ermor). When an empire’s big weakness is “Everyone will gang up on them because they’re so badass,” that’s not a bad place to be. :)

I do like that they’re so different from the other empires, and I agree that there are several undead-specific strategies that can be used (e.g., assassin with Just Man’s Cross) and that if Marignon is in the game, they’re tailor-made for wiping out Ermor.[/quote]

Hmm, are these assasins really affective vs Ermor? The JM crossbow is 1 shot per two turns if I rememember right, so even few bodyguards with your undead leaders would have plenty of time to deal with your assasin, with his slow reload rate. And it’s not like Ermor is having any lack of zero maintenece troops to designate some of them as bodyguards…

I’ve never used it in MP and never used it against a leader with bodyguards, so you’re probably right. There are several melee weapons that do extra undead damage, as well, so maybe those would work better. But I love that undead-killing crossbow.

I would say both of those things are required (or at least, Fanaticism is required to defend against Ermor, and supply is required to invade Ermor). When an empire’s big weakness is “Everyone will gang up on them because they’re so badass,” that’s not a bad place to be. :)

I do like that they’re so different from the other empires, and I agree that there are several undead-specific strategies that can be used (e.g., assassin with Just Man’s Cross) and that if Marignon is in the game, they’re tailor-made for wiping out Ermor.[/quote]

Hmm, are these assasins really affective vs Ermor? The JM crossbow is 1 shot per two turns if I rememember right, so even few bodyguards with your undead leaders would have plenty of time to deal with your assasin, with his slow reload rate. And it’s not like Ermor is having any lack of zero maintenece troops to designate some of them as bodyguards…[/quote]

Mike Obertly learned a painful Just Man’s Cross lesson when my Maringon assassin, Mergos, took out 3 or 4 commanders (was it 5?), including a dusk elder. He was accurate so the first shot usually did the job. I told him to shoot for the rear most enemy, and that was often the commander if their were bodyguards about. I kept expecting Mergos to make the Hall of Fame. But, then one day, as with all spies, they ran him to ground and put his head on pike.