Although Soapy still has hope it looks like Ct’is is going down for the count. Since C’tis has litterally hundreds of provinces this could take a little while but in the end Ermor was probably the king maker in this game. Well that and Man’s excellent defence.

Anon (Ulm- Black Forest) - I guess we can discuss our anonymous, “no diplomacy” game now that it’s down to just me and Pangaea.

This is my first time with Ulm Black Forest and although the Vampires are fun, the national troops seem to be severely lacking, especially the mage choices. UBF has 3 mages to choose from and they’re all low-skilled, and low research. If you don’t find any indie mages or sages you’ll fall way behind in research and gem income pretty darn rapidly. A rainbow pretender would help with the gem income at least but I personally went the “thematic” route and took the Vampire Queen with Death and Blood.

I’ve also never played a Blood nation so I’m sure I’m screwing up in the blood slave hunting department! It’s been torturously slow but all I have with UBF is a 160 gold mage with 1 blood! I suppose I could put some of my summoned Vampire Counts to hunting but I’ve got mine out in the field.

Anyway, to the game. No diplomacy is tough! Not having the foggiest idea as to what your neighbors are thinking makes for some seriously tense moments as your armies are waving at each other across provincial borders. This is where good scouting can play a critical role. Knowing what your neighbor’s relations are with his other neighbors can put you in a nice spot if’n he doesn’t know the same thing about you.

In normal games where chatter is allowed I’m typically a passive neighbor. I contact everybody, say hello, and then feel my way around, gauging everyone’s strengths and weaknesses and then I’ll pick one to wage war against. I’ll usually try to get someone else to join me. Or sometimes I’ll wait and see who else is at war and then join in as an ally based on certain factors.

In this Anon game it’s a whole ‘nother ball o’ wax. At one point I invaded both Caelum and Vanheim, knowing they couldn’t truly ally against me and hoping they didn’t have any clue I was waging a two-front war. I knew Vanheim was fairly small and his main army was off fighting a war on his opposite border vs Arco but it looked like Caelum was expanding north without opposition. So I figured I could take a couple provinces from Van and hold em while concentrating the majority of my efforts on Caelum. I can’t stand Caelum so my plan was to go for the throat before he started getting into the really nasty shit, eg lightning, air queens, etc…

Anyway, my plan crumbled as Vanheim suddenly whipped out an army full of those mounted Van folk, the ones with mirror image, etc., led by his pretender. This is where things get sticky w/out being able to fall back on diplomacy when you know you’ve made a mistake! So, upon seeing this rather serious counterattack and not really wanting a prolonged war with Vanheim I vacated his provinces and returned to my side of the river. I was hoping this “backing off” would show Vanheim that I wanted a truce–I was trying to say “OOps, sorry! Here, you can have your provinces back and I’ll just go back home. kthanksbye!”

I think it may have worked because after taking back his provinces (and 1 of mine for good measure!) he turned back. But maybe it was because he needed troops elsewhere… Anyway, point is, it’s tough to grovel when you can’t speak! :)

Meanwhile, Caelum and I started going at it pretty heavily. His lightning tore through my troops and even my vamps were getting zapped but I went at him with oodles of archers and rangers (crossbows) and they did a good number on his regulars. We both lost great numbers of troops for quite some time but eventually I took Caelum and removed his ability to make more of those vile High Seraphs! Yuck.

IN other parts of the world:

Arco was destroyed first either by Van or Pangaea–i’m not sure which did him in.

I never made contact with Ctis but noticed it was set to AI around turn…30-40 maybe? NOt sure. Ctis still lives but I assume Pangaea will steamroll him soon.

Pangaea recently showed up on my radar, much to my chagrin. I watched one massive army of 120+ White Centaurs and Centaur Warriors just absolutely steamroll one of Vanheim’s castles. What’s more is he’s got several additional centaur armies of varying sizes running all over the place! And here I am, with an army configured to fight flying archers and mages (read: shortbows+wolves!!) Not looking too good for me…

I’m guessing Pan owns about 2/3 of the map unless Ctis is much larger than I think. I own nearly the rest but there’s still a bunch of untaken indies that were north of Caelum (finally found SAGES! at approx. turn 50!). I’m scrambling now to counter big horsie people but I think it’s going to be “too little, too late”…

So, while I’ve enjoyed this “no diplomacy” game for its interesting dynamics it’s definitely not my preferred style of play. I don’t think I’d do it again. I need to wine and dine people! Butter 'em up! And all that jazz…

Anon (Pangaea) - So it is Guildboss in the west !

I loved this non-diplomacy style game. Not so much because I’m poor at diplomacy (which I am) but because of the feeling of tension when I first ran into other nations. What would he do? Attack? Retreat his armies from the front so as not to be threatening? Given that I couldn’t speak to the other nation, I had to make some interesting choices based purely on my scouting (was he at war with another nation?) and guesswork.

The bigggest effect of the no diplomacy option, in my opinion, is that it definately encourages war and discourages hoarding. Karan is a pretty big map, but I haven’t gotten the feeling people were hoarding. This is a good thing, in my opinion.

This was a very difficult research game. Combine that with the fact that no diplomacy seemed to encourage war, and there wasn’t as much magic nor as many Ice Devils/Bane Lords etc. with Wraith Swords/Blood Thorns etc. running around, which probably worked to my advantage.

I assume Guildboss has scouted me, so I’m hopefully not giving too much away here, but what the hell. This is all from memory so I may be off a bit.

I ran into Pythium within the first few turns. He immediately attacked with his White Bull and blessed Hydras. They caused some damage, but I was able to prevail.

I next ran into Arco and C’tis at about the same time. They seemed to be at war, which was a good thing as far as I was concerned. My strategy was to wait for them to bleed each other a bit while I moved in some stealth armies into position. I think something went wrong (I either did a Move instead of a Sneak or Arco caught one of my armies) and I ended up attacking Arco too soon. I was able to beat his armies, but his Nataraja was nasty. I got lucky, guessed the right province it was moving to, and caught it trying to raid my territory. I think Arco went AI after this.

C’tis built a fort right next to Arco’s capital and parked a big army in it. C’tis also had a fort with another army on my SE border. I didn’t know if he was going to attack into my lands with these armies (I’m guessing now, he wouldn’t have), but large armies on my borders made me nervous. My war with Arco probably made him nervous, though. So, I attacked him before I had finished Arco off.

C’tis build up inside his forts while I moved troops in. A few turns later, he attacked from behind his walls with Bane Lords, Swamp Guards, Sauromancers and some ethereal stuff, but I was able to fend him off and maintain the sieges. I send some bogus remote Call Wolves on his Sage farm, which did squat, so I sent some cavalry that way. I eventually took most of his forts and C’tis went AI.

So, in the last few turns, I redeployed west. Vanheim is in the middle of the map, between me and Ulm, while Caelum is in the NW. Ulm has pretty much taken care of Caelum, who has gone AI. I attacked Vanheim and was able to repel his counteract of Vans, Skinshifters, other stuff and his Virtue. I haven’t looked at the latest results, but I think Vanheim is close to being out.

So, the current situation has Ulm in the west and me in the east. Ulm had positioned armies on our central borders so he may have attacked me last turn (not sure, haven’t looked). I had most of my armies positioned in the South Center to finish off Vanheim.

Judging from Guildboss’s comments, I may have the edge in conventional troops but my research is not that great. I have the only two globals up as of now, Mother Oak and Gift of Health, so that should help. We’ll see how I do against the big summoned troops, if it comes to it.

This is the first time I’m down to the last two, so it should be fun :)

Ahh, so it’s jeffr behind Pangaea!! May all your Ivy Crowns be made of the poison variety! MUAHAHAHAHA!!

You know, I completely forgot about Pythium. I don’t remember hearing about him getting “offed”. Gratz.

Anyway, no, I haven’t done much scouting that far east but I do know what you have closer to me and I’m not really liking it. :P My research is awful so don’t expect any major summons anytime soon. No matter, I much prefer straight up national armies duking it out but I’m afraid you definitely have the upper hand there but I may still have some tricks up my chainmail sleeves…

Anon (Caelum)

So it was Guildboss who defeated me! This is the main reason I wanted to play a no-diplomacy game: I couldn’t imagine fighting versus Guildboss any other way. Well done, my friend.

I found two Libraries to my north and was racing to research Thunder Strike when Ulm (Guildboss) attacked from the south. I was just a move or two away from attacking him, so his strike was well-timed. I tried to keep up with the game during dissertation funzies, but was sorely pressed for time, and staled twice. Both times, my main army had defeated an Ulm army the previous turn, but then sat there staling in the face of counterattack. During one of the counterattacks, one of my high seraphs, who was blind, cast Thunder Strike twice (he was Quickened) right into the middle of my other high seraphs. Not so cool.

Ulm’s armies were well-outfitted to defeat me, and I believe I would not have lasted much longer even if I could have played those two turns. I was hoping that Vanheim would attack Ulm from the south during our war, so that Ulm would be fighting on two fronts. Sadly, Ulm and Vanheim managed (without any diplomacy!) to convey to each other that they did not want to prolong their brief struggle (as mentioned in Guildboss’s recap above).

Once I was down to my wounded Pretender, a couple of seraphs, and an army of about 30 units, I went AI to speed the game along.

I really enjoyed the no diplomacy setting for the reasons jeffr state above. I’d like to do it again, only on a smaller map with more crowded conditions.

Heck of a compliment, but from what I can see, Man had MUCH more to do with how things turn out than I did.

I’m nearly 50/50 for my attempts to help out inadvertently colliding with Man’s attempts to counter :(. So far, aside from killing a few C’tisian super-monsters, the only thing I think I’ve done right is giving Man gems/cash/items :).

This game does rock though, I wish I knew better how to use my resources, but that comes with practice I think.

I think Huz’s point was that if you had instead decided to be a thorn in Atlantis’s side, the balance of power would be in Ctis’s favour instead of Atlantis/Man’s favour. Hence: kingmaker.

I am not so sure, myself, how much of an impact it really has. Obviously it makes a big difference in that Atlantis does not have to protect/attack along a very long border while fighting me at the same time… however I dont know how long Ermor would last against Atlantean ueber priests.

No question it has made a difference though. Poured a lot of effort into defending Trade Cities, for example, that in retrospect maybe I should not have but there it is, it was costly!

I apologize for being a bad ally in the last month, Soapy. I honestly thought you had this game in the bag about a month ago, so after I sent you my resources, I thought it was safe to go AI. It’s hard for me to believe you guys are still playing. Congratz to everyone who is still left… even Ermor, whose decision to side with Atlantis against me made me cry: :(

(Caelum)

Faeruntest (Atlantis):

It is quite a bit early to be calling anyone kingmaker, especially since C’tis actually still has the game won. With Ermor joining the side of the righteous, then the game has become much more interesting. Basically, Ermor’s decision saved Man from death. For if I were still fighting Ermor, I would not be fighting C’tis. And the lizards would have put all those troops he sent my way against Man, totally crushing him by now.

By not having to fight Ermor, I also was able to feed stuff to Man for his galliant defense. I think I have sent him about 30,000 gold, and maybe 2000 gems, plus used another 2000 or so gems to protect him where I could. Had I used that stuff against Ermor instead, Man would be in very bad shape by now, probably dead.

The switching of sides by Ermor produced a nice result for me. All those Queens I had up north to banish the endless undeads? Well, they finally reached the southern front in the past few turns. And they turned out to be nearly as effective against sauromancers as thay are against Ermor!

This afternoon, I was trying to remember how the game has gone for the final 10 nations:

Place 10 - Pythium. He killed himself by not realizing the importance of the 0.5% growth scale. That was the first thing I noticed when the scales were announced. I did try to save Pythium by casting remote artillery spells against C’tis before we were officially at war, but the situation was hopeless for Ron. Pythuim did put up a very nice fight and set back the lizards for quite a while, helping me immeasurably.

Place 9 - Ulm! Amazing thing here, for Ulm was AI for around 40 turns before dying. Being in the corner helped a lot, though, for the battles were mostly elsewhere.

Place 8 - Pangaea. I am not sure exactly what happenned here, but he staled for a lot of turns and then went AI. With judicious use of remote summons and invading the resulting neutral provinces, I took probably 10 Pangaea provinces without even being at war with the AI. (Yeah, I know, taking advantage of the predictable AI is pretty low.) He therefore used all his troops up against Ermor before I eventually declared open war on the AI to help finish 'em off.

Place 7 - Marignon. What can we say about this race? Turin did a very fine job with this nation, and I was sorry to see all the name calling and stuff that happened when he went AI. Even as an AI, it was very hard to kill him with all those nice blood summons he had going.

Place 6 - R’lyeh. I know next to nothing about my underwater brethren, other than he never had much of an empire and was protected from elimination by the powerful lizards for the longest time.

Place 5 - Caelum. Same thing goes here, C’tis protected Caelum from death for a long time. I was sad to see him send his gems and gold to the lizards, for C’tis surely does not need any more of that!!!

Place 4 - Man. Ah, the humans. Mercutio has played an awesome game. The fact that the good Man mages are capitol only is a GIGANTIC penalty on a map this big. How has he lasted this long? Good diplimacy and amazing battle scripts, I believe. A worthy player for sure. When he dies, the house around me will fall.

Place 3 - Ermor. Ditto, ditto, and more ditto. He survived a gigantic early game alliance. He has done very well with diplomacy despite being the hated Ashen Empire. He has played in the true FFA spirit indeed. He was severly penalized by not being able to take advantage of the overdone growth scale. He surely deserves to be on the platform when the awards are handed out.

Place 2 - Atlantis. I have amazed even myself in this game. The only other time I played Atlantis, I wound up as the first eliminated! I therefore did not want that race in this game, but the Dice Man was not interested in a swap with me. I therfore got stuck with the fishies. So, how did I become a powerhouse anyway? I am not exactly sure. I played very quiet and passive early on, which is not my usual style. But I was having severe RL difficulties in December, January, and February which prevented me from entering any major war due to a time crunch. I did a bunch of turns on the road connected through my daughter’s cell phone! I played safe and sure, relying mostly on diplomacy and the natural abhorrance of any player to have to fight a water nation. I helped Pythium and Mictlan kill Machaka, but I did nothing more than keep him from expanding west. I got only 3 or 4 provinces from the war as Pythium utterly crushed the spiders into the ground. I helped Pangaea in the north a bit also from time to time. And then, when I had some RL time, I blitzed Vanheim after the switch between Huzur and Soapy. I remember my son was at my apartment looking over my shoulder when I put together the first attack, hitting 11 provinces in one foul sweep! Tauren predicted 5 turns for me to take all 18 provinces, which was precisely correct. That was the point at which I think I moved into second place, and I have been there ever since.

Place 1 - C’tis. The Huzurdaddi/Soapyfrog tag team has been incredibly strong. Huzur put the lizards into prominent early game power with his splendid play. And then he handed the reins to Soapy when the micro-management got too severe. Soapyfrog has handled the race remarkably well since that time, entering into his massive blitz over most of the eastern world.

I know full well that if Soapy were to invest 3+ hours per turn like I have done recently, he could likely break the back of Man’s resistance within 10 or so turns from now. And once Man falls, Ermor would not be far behind. After that, I am toast, though it would take probably another 100 turns from now to actually finish us all off.

By my best guesswork, I believe that C’tis has 50% the provinces, 60% of the gold income, 65% of the gem income, 75% of the commanders, and 80% of the SCs at this point in time. I cannot really imagine how he can handle all that! Truly, I can’t.

This has been a most enjoyable game. It is the first one I ever played to this stage, though a previous game of mine did hit Turn 140 (but on a much smaller map). I must say that this is the last one also, as I cannot see investing this amount of time into another Dom 2 game.

Kudos to all involved!

The Panther makes it sound as if the game is over. But we all remember the last time THAT was said! :)

Very nice sum up. I am really not sure I can actually win this game but I dont go as far as Huz as to say I have lost! :D Actually I think it is rather even, although IMHO at the moment you have a slight upper hand, tactically speaking.

If I zoom out the map to the maximum and squint, it looks like I might have 60% of the provinces. Based on that I probably have about 60% of the gems as well. Commanders? Maybe but these things are relative! And SC’s? Well… I guess those would be the doom horrors ;)

I buckled down and did my turn today. Took about 90 minutes, and then I probably went back and tweaked a few times later on in the day. I am trying to arrive at a “system” by which I can largely mass produce what I need. Should be interesting…

I had a feeling it was you! Yeah, you’re right, if diplomacy had been allowed I’m sure we’d have struck a deal early on and invaded east together…

I found two Libraries to my north and was racing to research Thunder Strike when Ulm (Guildboss) attacked from the south. I was just a move or two away from attacking him, so his strike was well-timed.

I knew from our early battles that you had a decent research machine going (far better than mine, anyway!) but my stealth raid on your little sage party (20+ sages) didn’t quite go as planned. :(

I was planning on attacking you no matter what–Caelum scares the crap out of me!

Both times, my main army had defeated an Ulm army the previous turn, but then sat there staling in the face of counterattack. During one of the counterattacks, one of my high seraphs, who was blind, cast Thunder Strike twice (he was Quickened) right into the middle of my other high seraphs. Not so cool.

Funniest thing ever was a pack of your routed elephants running over a group of your high seraphs. I cheered wildly at that. :)

I really enjoyed the no diplomacy setting for the reasons jeffr state above. I’d like to do it again, only on a smaller map with more crowded conditions.

Hmm. Well, maybe I’d do another one. Small map, standard research maybe… :P

Aw shucks! 8)

I didn’t get to see that, unfortunately! However, I did notice a greatly reduced high seraph population the next turn.

Yeah, I’d play standard research, smaller map, no diplomacy. Soon!

Aw shucks! 8)

I didn’t get to see that, unfortunately! However, I did notice a greatly reduced high seraph population the next turn.

Yeah, I’d play standard research, smaller map, no diplomacy. Soon![/quote]

Maybe sooner than you think as jeffr’s Centaur horde is rolling over me–he’s really got the momentum! After all my many hours behind the Pangaean steering wheel, knowing Pan’s ins and outs, it really hurts to get smashed by them. :(

Anon (Pan) - I’m confident but by no means comfortable. I’ve been smacked around too many times. Several large Ulmish armies with Vampire royalty are seen marshalling on the western front. And there is something called a Blood Marhsal, I think, as well. I’ve never seen one of those before.

He’s one of Black Forest Ulm’s national heroes. Better stats than the vampire counts, and comes standard with plate armour and a greatsword I believe.

He’s one of Black Forest Ulm’s national heroes. Better stats than the vampire counts, and comes standard with plate armour and a greatsword I believe.[/quote]

Aye, his name is Burkhard Nachtzehrer and he’s a mean ol’ ancient bloodsucker. I love this guy. He joined the cause early on and made a decent SC for grabbing indies. He’s gonna enjoy sucking the life out of your furry little goatpeople! Especially them priestly Dryads… MUAHAHAHHA! Yeah, he’s like a SITH LORD coming to get the JEDI! Uh, nevermind… :roll:

Nevermind indeed… :?

;)

Faeruntest (Ctis): Turn 116

Atlantis is on a roll! The frontier fortress of Mintar has fallen, and with it die the Ivy Kings that were supplying the meat of my central front armies. A painful loss. Moreover, Atlantean battlegroups have come ashore in multiple locations… he pressing the advantage while he has it.

Atlantis’s power was felt far to the north in the lands of Man as one of my main armies, beseiging the Flooded Lands, was ravaged by murdering winters and flames from the sky. Only 8 out of aproximately 50 sauromancers survived the bombardment, and these remaining brave lizards, plus two Tartarian Cyclops and a handful (76) of warriors and fiends then had to face down 13 castings of ghost riders (thats 429 longdead cavalry and 13 mounted wraithlords) with the mighty power of the Tartarians behind them, the dead riders were routed, but only at enormous cost as 5 sauromancers, 1 Tartarian and 48 troops perished in the onslaught. Only a single, heavily afflicted Tartarian and a lone sauromancer remained to make the assault on the fortress of the Flooded Lands. Under a hail of arrows, a swarm of earth elementals were summoned and sent in to vanquish the few defenders… but not before the heroic Tartarian picked up a 5th affliction, and was left feeble minded.

The defenders of Myth Drannor sent out a considerable force to kill the Doom Horror that plagued the province, and this they acheived much to my chagrin (these Doom Horrors are really not all they are cracked up to be!), but little did they know the doom horror had been reinforced by a squad of skullface wearing skeleton summoning black servants. Although they fought bravely, the Man’ish force could not prevail against a literal carpet of skeletons that marched against them until they fled. Two Arch Devils, three Tuathas, the contingent of hama dryads and eternal knights all perished in the rout. A serious blow to the defence of Myth Drannor, even if it did cost me a Doom Horror…

Will Atantean support be enough to save Man? We shall see! All power and Glory to the great empire of Ctis!! *hisssssssssssssssss

Faeruntest (Atlantis):

Yet another turn full of massive wars and strange events. More slaughter. Battles I thought I would lose were won (Mintar). Battles I thought I would win, I annoyingly lose to the 50 turn limit (The Flooded Forest). Sometimes, I beat off the relentless Ghost Riders. Sometimes, I don’t. There is no rhyme or reason as to which is which.

Each morning after a scheduled hosting, I eagerly poor over the turn results. Most turns, there are maybe 100 messages scrolling through my screen. I counted 106 a few turns ago just to see how many there were. Most messages, I just ignore. I search for the key battles. I have several province names memorized from so many wars fought there. I watch battle after battle after battle. (Thank goodness for the ‘F’ key in battles!) I make breakfast while the replay goes on and on, often out to the full 50 turns and beyond.

And then, after the initial rush of euphoria, dread sets in. For I know I have to find orders for my numerous commanders once again. I must find my missing artifacts on commanders that have no business carrying them. I must put together yet another massive move in the next day or two. I grow envious of Huzurdaddi, watching from the sidelines. He sees all without the massive time investment in move after move after move. He gets the fun without the hassle. LIFE IS NOT FAIR!

What an amazing game this has been. I have never seen the likes of this in my previous 15 MP games. Nothing even remotely close.

And my conclusion? The mods created for this game were darn good. Other than the overdone 0.5% growth scale and a few errors for artifact construction, it is a remarkably stable set of mods. It works!

Hey, I just thought of something. We ought to be Beta Testers!!!