I think you meant to say 720RP before imprisoned ones would break free, if you have spent all this time reasearching.

Actually, my scales are pretty good. I have Order+Growth+Magic.

Damn it, Clark, you’re harshing my optimism here.

I do like that you can see your enemies’ dominion breakdown now. I never knew how to do that in Dom2.

How topical is this? I just spent over a thousand gold preparing a province to defend against a blessed attack. I had 20 PD and 93 units. I was attacked by 18 F9W9 centaurs. They won, but I did manage to kill 3 of them! 3!

Screw this noise, Dom3 is broken. I’m not joining or hosting any new games until this shit gets sorted out.

Still plenty of room for house rules games. I always thought it’d be fun if everyone designed the worst pretender they can, and then they were randomly assigned to the players.

Nick:

I’m sorta glad you said this, because I have the feeling like all of this is going over my head… basically, what you guys keep saying doesn’t seem to correspond to my experience at all.

… mind you, I understand that YOUR odd happenings are at a higher level of complexity than MY odd happenings, but at least the final result is similar …

I think after my games are done, I’m gonna go back to single player for a milennium or two, before I rejoin the multiplayer ;) I’ll keep the servers going, but I don’t think I’ll participate.

That’s not the bless the centaurs had. And the units that everyone usually complains about are the various Heim’s and maybe the giants, not the centaurs. The centaurs are good, but not in the league of the Heim’s. No glamour, no uber defense, not even a lance for the charge benefit.

What happened, I think, was that most of your troops were very poor. Everyone, in fact, except the Cavemen. You also invaded with no magic support, just mermen. My guys also had a couple of stars, which upped their stats. I also got lucky that your guys routed while you still had quite a lot of them.

I was lucky that the target of your assassination attempt can hit ethereals and doesn’t care about disease. I wouldn’t call a centaur hierophant an uber unit.

Frankly, I think you are being a bit pre-mature. It sucks to lose large armies when you think you should win (I know), but there are counters to these double bless strategies, as there are counters to most strategies. That’s the fun of it, in my opinion. In another game I’m playing, I got hosed and lost my entire large centaur army to a very effective counter. I was very surprised, but I learned something and found a use for Pan unit I hadn’t considered using before.

To say the game is broken is just flat out wrong, in my opinion. What you tried this time didn’t work. Your next attempt will be different.

This game is different than Dom2 and I for one like the idea that there are more ways to go than the standard Dom2 SCs, the Bane Lords, the same few killer spells and the same tactics that became very tired after awhile. Everyone had access to the same stuff and everyone used the same stuff because it was the most efficient.

I’m still new at it and am not doing very well, but it’s not broken. The Heim’s might be overpowered at the moment, but we’ll see.

One thing from Dom2 that I could never stand was the 1 guy blowing through an army thing. I haven’t seen that (yet), so that in and of itself makes Dom3 better for me.

You were facing about 1300 gold in units. Against heavy blesses you need at least x1.5 gold to x3 gold to have a chance. One thing about heavy bless stratgies is that they seem to make for very lob sidded battle results.

Bless is pretty powerful in Dom3. It allows for easy early expansion and it makes your troops very cost effective. With the nerf to pretender SC’s it really seems like the most effective choice currently.

Actually white centaurs are one of the uber units. They have uber defence ( same as Van ) they have 2 attacks, 20+ hp, and recouperation. No Glamour though so remote spells can counter them.

There are not many that are cost effective ( ok there are none that I know of ). What I find amazing about Vans is that even in the late, late game they are effective units which are very hard to counter. There are not many units that you can say that about!

You forgot to mention what units did you use. And high PD for Mictlan is useless against F9/W9 blessed centaurs, you were just wasting your money.

I am kind of surprised, because at this stage of the game (turn 30+) you should have a lot of good counters against double blessed units. There were only 18 of them after all. Your national battle mages come to mind as the most simple and obvious choice against good sacred units in the late game. Playing as EA Mictlan your mages come dirt cheap, and they are sacred. Why didn’t you use them? Or you could use Flame Arrows with your priest of Sun and group of cheap indep archers - centaurs would die to flame arrows like there is no tomorrow. They don’t even have glamour, unlike Helheim/Vanheim, and they have prot 9.

Finally 18 centaurs actually cost 1260 gp. You should not expect to spend less money defending against some of the most cost effective capital only double blessed units and win.

All this doesn’t mean that well-played sacred are not very powerful - they are. But I would not call Dom3 broken. You just need to learn to adapt. Just like players had to adapt when they were facing EA Ermor in Dom2.

Is Rob O’Boston on holiday? Haven’t had a new turn for a few days.

Oh man nick dont be such a p…, i have really a few ideas how to beat an überbless, but as i´m playing one in dawn at a criticall point i will not post them yet here.

As mentioned above 18 blessed centaurs cost more than your army together with the points that he used for the überbless his army was simply more expansive than yours. Try it the other way around. If YOU had an überbless army what would you fear the most? why didnt you try it? When an überbless army is coming you cant beat him with the same money you HAVE to spend at least tripple. If your making a pretender that is only used for research your wasting money. Your pretender should support troops right away.
As a SC or as sleeping or dormant god for bless, or as spelllobber after the first ten turns or so (never tried that but i will work on it at the next game or so).

My experience in boardgames is that every time you think a side unbeatable you do something wrong, find out what and change it or play only the stronger side and wait until someone shows you. ;)

Blessings are very powerful. However, I did kill almost 40 of 50 of Hetzer’s blessed super-infantry with waves of 300 and 200 good ulmish troops (about 200 of those were punily blessed infantry of my own).

The lesson is simple: if I had combined my 500 troops with 10 mages, it would have been a fair fight–I just needed to have spent 3x the amount of gold that my super-blessed opponent spent. I enjoy the fact that the Scandinavian-themed countries are all at a strong advantage there, it seems to me reminiscent of Ermor in Dom 1–just another thing to bear in mind diplomatically. Also, I’m not sure that I remember correctly, but I think that Vanheim was listed as “easy” positions. Sounds accurate! I am having a fun challenge in this game (and losing heavily, as I don’t turn out to be very good), and haven’t seen any huge problems on this map.

A thousand gold is chump change in this game.

You probably can’t beat a power-bless by just throwing hordes at it, any more than you could beat a Dom2 SC by throwing hordes at it. You’ve got to dismantle it. Stop thinking of blessed troops as being just good quality regular soldiers. 18 beating 93 makes perfect sense if it was against Mictlan, which has notoriously bad and easily-routed troops. How many of your troops were devils or fiends? That’s what Mictlan should be using for its core forces, as soon as possible - particularly by turn 30.

Well, unsurprisingly, I am a minnow in a pool of sharks. Turn 26 - Man is currently sieging my (C’Tis) capital and I’m not sure I can scrape together a force to beat his heavily enchanted archers. That’s what I get for jumping into the experienced players game. :-)

So, a note to all other players - Man is large and scary in the northwest.

Is there any way to force Dom3 to download your previously uploaded host file? I’m using two different computers to play my turns, and it’s difficult when I check a turn on my computer at work, only to find that it has downloaded the .trn file, and I have to put in all the orders again.

Having an army of 60 elephants bugs this feature. You might split them up, then you can check from both computers. I swear it’s true!

Heh, Perkins saw it in Bandar.
Hey, I apologized!

While we’re on the subject of uber-units, anyone have any advice for fighting a Caelum player, in MP, who has more mammoths than the GDI?

I’m playing MA Man, Turn 15, and Caelum is operating around 4 stacks of around 8-10 mammoths + 20-30 fliers, plus one stack of nine mammoths. This is a lethal combination: mammoths will shred infantry and cavalry; longbows do jack to mammoths, and are easily counterable with the magic he has; and anyway the fliers can zerg archers and mages under.

His magic is middling, but that doesn’t matter; his units are so good that I’m basically fighting a delaying action until I can research Amphiteres and Call of the Wind (Conjuration 3 - I can get there in 3 turns) . My main army - with basically all of my troops - consists of around 50 tower guards, 10 light infantry, 80 longbows, some indy commanders, and 5 mothers scripted to Mirror Image, Eagle Eyes, Sleep x 3 (which IS very effective against mammoths, thanks to their terrible MR, but doesn’t work quickly enough). My units are spread around the field so they can’t all be squished, set up so that the infantry can quickly chop up any fliers he has. I’m basically hoping that while the mothers put some of the mammoths to sleep, some of the longbowmen and infantry kill enough fliers to make the remaining mammoths rout, while the remaining longbowmen keep shooting at the mammoths.

I’m taking this army (well, actually, it’s 3 armies that are going to join forces) against one of his 10 mammoth/30 flier stacks next turn, and I think I might be able to pull it off IF his second stack, next door, doesn’t reinforce the first. I’m going to have a scout attack to distract the second stack, but if that doesn’t work, it looks like I’ll have nothing to do except turtle, research, and pray that my ally honours his treaty commitment.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

ETA - Before I speedrush conjuration, I’m finishing off enchantment 4 for Wind Guide (in the hope of countering his counters, and preserving a bit of utility for my longbows) and Swarm (I have no idea if that works against mammoths - but it’s worth a try).

Why would Call of the Winds help? As I recall all that does is summon easily-routable black hawks, good for paratrooping into the enemy’s backfield on lightly held provinces but not much else …

Have you tried False Fetters to immobilize the mammoths? Should be effective against low MR.

Yeah, I was hoping to use them en masse to knock out his capital’s PD and shut down recruitment for a turn, then raid his lightly held provinces. It’d hopefully cut down his income and force him to divert troops… and if worse comes to worst, it may stop me from running out of provinces.

Hey, that’s a good idea. Not castable by mothers without use of gems, though, and my crones are some distance away from the frontline. Still, I have a couple of air gems on my mothers (not at a lab currently) that I might as well use…

Thanks!