Dominions 3: Unofficial All-Purpose Megathread

[gruntled]

I’m hoping to get some feedback about the organization of Pax Ermor, how players like the donut map,

The donut is an interesting idea, but it needs a better implementation than in Pax Ermor. The lake needs to be right in he middle, and you need to pre-set exact starting spots. Otherwise you get the kind of Shin/Ulm/Abysia vs Pythium/Bandar/Ermor territory imbalance we see in Pax.

Even implemented properly, I wouldn’t want to play every game in that setup. I think part of your goal was to avoid the 4v1 gang up on the leader war, but the tradeoff is likely to be a bunch of early 2v1 wars. Another consideration is that the water nation is in a relatively stronger position, compared to most maps. The water nation always has raiding access to most land nations, but usually the tradeoff is the difficulty in moving large armies around underwater (with the 1-mapmove limit). In the donut, the lake is a very compact circle, and the water nation can get a large army anywhere quite quickly.

[gruntled]

The peace agreement between Shinuyama and Ermor is at an end. Boom goes the dynamite.

This is going to be a bloody mess, as we have a 1-province choke between us. Except for the detail that the term “bloody mess” does not apply to the Ermorian Recycled Forces in any literal sense.

[wahoo]

“The donut is an interesting idea, but it needs a better implementation than in Pax Ermor. The lake needs to be right in he middle, and you need to pre-set exact starting spots. Otherwise you get the kind of Shin/Ulm/Abysia vs Pythium/Bandar/Ermor territory imbalance we see in Pax.”

I dont like the donut. I’d also prefer a wraparound map (and heck, I’ll try to find one if folks want). Otherwise, so much of the game is dependent on starting spots. If you’re a corner you’re ina good shape. A wraparound on the other hand…

[GuildBoss]

Incidentally, did your pretender die after routing off the battlefield (this was when you broke siege and ran into my Rain of Stones casters), after I’d cut off your retreat, even though you eventually won the battle?

I’m pretty sure he got away due to stealth but I can’t recall exactly.

But yeah, Rain of Stones was BRUTALLY effective!

[LeSquide]

I think I actually still have that on an indy commander who picked it up around the time your capital fell. And that wasn’t your castle - you razed it, remember? My army was held there for several turns while it built a new fortress, and fended off wave after wave of Caelian attacks.

By the way, remember that battle where my archers chewed up your hydras? That was another instance of my getting lucky - you attacked a province whose PD I’d reinforced during the Mictlan war, and the PD did a fantastic job of slowing down your hydras while my crossbowmen went to work.

Incidentally, did your pretender die after routing off the battlefield (this was when you broke siege and ran into my Rain of Stones casters), after I’d cut off your retreat, even though you eventually won the battle?

Hah, I assumed that you had purchased the helms on the cheap from Patala, not Agartha. I was worried about the first round, but I was able to partly counter that by bringing a Staff of Storms (which fulfilled four purposes: keeping your wraith lord on the ground; reducing your banefire casters’ accuracy; letting my mages cast Storm Power; and boosting my Wrathful Skies) plus a wall of vine ogres to soak up banefire. After I got Mist up the next round, that further reduced your casters’ accuracy to 3 or 4. The Life after Death didn’t do you a huge amount of good, either - I was using spells that hit the entire field (Earthquake, Rain of Stones, Wrathful Skies).

As for the wraith lord, he ran smack into a knot of Fog + Storm Warriors-boosted vine ogres and wasted his efforts beating on them. I’m not sure what eventually killed him - the vine ogres, or the magic.

Even withdrawing would have been better than bypassing the fortress, as it would have forced me to come after you - then I would have been the one risking being cut off.

As to what you could have done, I was really surprised that you never sent Tartarians at me - what were you using all those death gems from the Well of Misery for?

Sure! Gives me more time to micro… ;)

Shattered Soul had me worried; also, without a Chalice, I would’ve been busting out 10 death gems a term for dubious goods.

There’s a few turns where I should have gone that route, though, but decided in favor of more battle magic.

Sadly, Death is great by itself for midgame, but lacked anything good for countering you lategame. I was debating trying one of the hits-everything spells, but you had my tough units outnumbered via elemental royalty and the like, and neither Wraith nor Banelord would have particularly good luck against them without a way to grab life-drain enabled HP.

I didn’t withdraw due to the proximity of my capital; I should’ve.

[wahoo]

GA: On your potential new LA game:

Here’s a cool, huge wrapparound map. “http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37295”

It might be took big at 246 land, 44 sea for 290 provinces…

here’s a smaller 100 land, 16 sea or so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38391

and one more wraparpound map: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35822

I think a wrap would be pretty different and evade some of the problems of being able to isolate yourself in a corner.

[Lazy_Shiftless_Basta]

A new game would be pretty sweet, and I second wahoo’s suggestion of a wraparound map.

Just out of curiousity, why would you ban R’lyeh from a LA game?
I can understand Ermor since I enjoyed totally overwhelming that one game with undead for my only win so far, but I don’t think I’ve read any reports of R’lyeh even coming close to victory in any of these games. Anyone have a link to a crushing R’lyeh victory?

[Greatatlantic]

A new game would be pretty sweet, and I second wahoo’s suggestion of a wraparound map.

Just out of curiousity, why would you ban R’lyeh from a LA game?
I can understand Ermor since I enjoyed totally overwhelming that one game with undead for my only win so far, but I don’t think I’ve read any reports of R’lyeh even coming close to victory in any of these games. Anyone have a link to a crushing R’lyeh victory?

For the grognards on the Shrapnel forums, R’lyeh is Ermor on steroids. I’ll just quickly list where R’lyeh has it better.

-Dominion kill doesn’t kill as fast, meaning more time to make money off of provinces.

-Dominion causes insanity, which small investments in supply items doesn’t help protect against.

-Powerful astral mages, especially for LA.

-Amphibious versus poor amphibian, its easy to see who comes out ahead.

-Void Gate can be used to summon powerful sacreds.

-Recruitable troops exist alongside freespawn and commanders do not need to be summoned.

-Freespawn not undead and therefore don’t have traditional undead weaknesses (namely banishment for the early game).

Yes, playing R’lyeh can be a test of patience when half of your commanders go insane and start ignoring orders, but if a players willing to invest the time R’lyeh is incredibly powerful and more resistant to alliances against them since they alone occupy the water.

[Matt_Perkins]

Mistspell.

wahoo has the right of it from what I saw (Marigon), except one thing. Pan wasn’t quite as powerful as people coughwahoocough made him out to be. Everyone believed wahoo (except for me) when he claimed that and destroyed him and gave the game to Ulm.

The reason I attacked TC was because I didn’t believe wahoo and I was trying to help Pan, but by the time I got an army down to TC, it was too late for Pan.

Fun game all around. wahoo wins because of diplomacy.

[Hetzer]

For the grognards on the Shrapnel forums, R’lyeh is Ermor on steroids. I’ll just quickly list where R’lyeh has it better.

-Dominion kill doesn’t kill as fast, meaning more time to make money off of provinces.

-Dominion causes insanity, which small investments in supply items doesn’t help protect against.

-Powerful astral mages, especially for LA.

-Amphibious versus poor amphibian, its easy to see who comes out ahead.

-Void Gate can be used to summon powerful sacreds.

-Recruitable troops exist alongside freespawn and commanders do not need to be summoned.

-Freespawn not undead and therefore don’t have traditional undead weaknesses (namely banishment for the early game).

Yes, playing R’lyeh can be a test of patience when half of your commanders go insane and start ignoring orders, but if a players willing to invest the time R’lyeh is incredibly powerful and more resistant to alliances against them since they alone occupy the water.

Yes they dont have undead qualities BUUUUT they eat… ( A LOTTTTT!!!) so if you dont mind that most of your troops are diseased and starving (starting with low hitpoints anyway) than go ahead… the sacreds are the same as in ma and not that good.

I would like to be in that game …

[Lazy_Shiftless_Basta]

For the grognards on the Shrapnel forums, R’lyeh is Ermor on steroids.

Really? Do R’lyeh players win a lot on the Shrapnel forums? I just remember playing as LA R’lyeh and the huge disadvantages not listed there are their freespawn are possibly crappier than Ermor’s and not only eat all your food, but have a gold upkeep as well. I had so many freespawn draining my treasury that I could hardly buy any other troops. Also they get raped so hard by archers it’s not even funny. Well, maybe a little funny.

All in all I don’t know if I’d really want to play them again, and I wouldn’t be opposed to anyone else taking them.

[Mind_Elemental]

Shattered Soul had me worried; also, without a Chalice, I would’ve been busting out 10 death gems a term for dubious goods.

There’s a few turns where I should have gone that route, though, but decided in favor of more battle magic.

Sadly, Death is great by itself for midgame, but lacked anything good for countering you lategame. I was debating trying one of the hits-everything spells, but you had my tough units outnumbered via elemental royalty and the like, and neither Wraith nor Banelord would have particularly good luck against them without a way to grab life-drain enabled HP.

I didn’t withdraw due to the proximity of my capital; I should’ve.

The Chalice was another thing that I was surprised that nobody (especially Patala) picked up. I was gearing up for a Tartarian factory of my own, Shattered Soul or no Shattered Soul, but it looks like that wouldn’t have been necessary after all.

Even without hits-everything spells of your own, or Tartarians, you could always have pulled out Leprosy (which would have seriously whittled down the large armies that were the backbone of my power, and that were vital for holding/storming fortresses), more Ghost Riders, and Black Death (although if that was your mage who was fried by my dome, I can’t blame you for holding off - but a Ring of Fire would have protected him) - granted, my Gift of Health would have mitigated the effects of Leprosy within my dominion, but I still had some stacks in hostile dominion.

Even pulling back one province, to your side of the channel, would have helped you a lot there.

Ultimately, though, I chose you as my main target for another reason besides proximity: until I hit on Storm + Mist to nullify Banefire, I was very reluctant to go toe-to-toe with you on the battlefield. However, going up against you would have let me pit my strength (mobility) against your weakness (no high-level astral or air magic + large, lumbering armies). If I’d invaded Caelum instead, he would have been able to beat me at my own game - plus he’d have had access to Fog Warriors, which would have prevented me nuking him with Rain of Stones.

[wahoo]

Mistspell.

wahoo has the right of it from what I saw (Marigon), except one thing. Pan wasn’t quite as powerful as people coughwahoocough made him out to be. Everyone believed wahoo (except for me) when he claimed that and destroyed him and gave the game to Ulm.

Fun game all around. wahoo wins because of diplomacy.

I’d be curious to hear Jeff’s (Pan’s take on this.) As I said before, when Ulm and Pan really went at it, Pan had destroyed Ermor and I believe Shin as well. He also had at least 1 TC fort under siege (unless TC took out Shin). If Pan had Shin, that gave him 3 capitols to Ulm’s 2, and Pan had another key province under siege. Pan also had probably 40-50% of the map at his zenith going from about 10:30 on the clock down to 6. with a patch of Marignon at 2-3 and TC down around 4-5.

Diplomacy is usually key to any MP win. I definitely tried to get everyone to jump Pan and ignore me, but my efforts were easy b/c Pan was visibly so much bigger and tougher than everyone else.

[Matt_Perkins]

I’d be curious to hear Jeff’s (Pan’s take on this.) As I said before, when Ulm and Pan really went at it, Pan had destroyed Ermor and I believe Shin as well. He also had at least 1 TC fort under siege (unless TC took out Shin). If Pan had Shin, that gave him 3 capitols to Ulm’s 2, and Pan had another key province under siege. Pan also had probably 40-50% of the map at his zenith going from about 10:30 on the clock down to 6. with a patch of Marignon at 2-3 and TC down around 4-5.

Diplomacy is usually key to any MP win. I definitely tried to get everyone to jump Pan and ignore me, but my efforts were easy b/c Pan was visibly so much bigger and tougher than everyone else.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you shouldn’t have done it. I think it was well done. I think people in general was just too quick to buy into it and didn’t watch their backs with the new alliance they jumped into.

It was definitely a fun game and I’m looking forward to the next one.

[Greatatlantic]

Today Pythium diplomats were stunned to recieve notice from the south that our NAP had been cancelled. It was long assumed those lands were occupied by nothing but exotic creatures best suited for tours and safari. However, apparently these primitive beasts had not only managed to form some sort of government, but out predecessors negotiated a NAP with them! Well, this declaration of war makes our recently approved Ape Rights Act a bit embarassing, but that Jane Godall documentary was so stirring.

So we remind ourselves, these apes our only beautiful in their natural habitats of the wild, their primitive state. We must tear down those corrupting cities! Or move into them ourselves. We must also make sure our museums are filled with stuffed apes so our children may grow up learning what noble creatures they are. Also, we want some in cages for roadside attractions.

[wahoo]

They not only managed to form some sort of government, but out predecessors negotiated a NAP with them! Well, this declaration of war makes our recently approved Ape Rights Act a bit embarassing, but that Jane Godall documentary was so stirring.

.

What’s even more stunning is that we apes can apparently spell 3 letter words better than Pythium PR officials.

[Dave_Perkins]

The Apes bring the burn.

[baruk]

Turn 31

Had a large battle with Ermor this turn in the chokepoint province of Zenthra (12). Facing about 1000 troops, I had planned 3 castings of the battlefield spell Earthquake (8ap damage), but the AI only managed 2. Unfortunately not as devastating as I’d hoped, and the undead carried the day.

[GuildBoss]

Turn 31

Had a large battle with Ermor this turn in the chokepoint province of Zenthra (12). Facing about 1000 troops, I had planned 3 castings of the battlefield spell Earthquake (8ap damage), but the AI only managed 2. Unfortunately not as devastating as I’d hoped, and the undead carried the day.

Not to mention the undead can just climb back up out of the cracks… stoopid undead.

[Greatatlantic]

I would have gone with flaming arrows, but thats what beat me when i played as MA Ermor, so what do I know.