Doom Eternal - Hell on Earth Returns

I’ve played Prey; it actually had a good reason for teleporting monsters in, and great set dressing to boot. I assume you mean nu-Prey though.
DOOM had a few monster spawners, but it wasn’t not the primary method of delivering mooks like it is in nu-DOOM. And it was grimdark, yeah; I miss that.

Have you played Shadow Warrior/Shadow Warrior 2 (not the Build game). Might be right up your alley.

Technically, old Doom didn’t have monsters wandering naturalistically either. They stood in one place until they saw you. Clever lever designers created small 1-pip holes in walls so the monsters could see you walk by and activate.

I think his point is easily understandable though : original Doom has the levels prefilled with monsters, and you go around and shoot them. There are examples of when new monsters spawn in, and even a few of the doors slamming shut and you/the monsters being trapped in with the monsters/you. But those are the exception rather than the rule.

Whereas nuDoom they were the rule. (And also it never had more than 4 monsters on screen at once, which was pathetic really. That’s definitely am example of graphics winning over gameplay.)

‘Going to battle to Heaven, in addition of Hell’ is a theme that some Doom mods have used.

Asymmetric my dudes.

Have you played Bayonetta? It’s not metal but it’s awesome and badass in a totally different way.

I always fantasised about a Quake set in pristine white palatial arenas, just for that red/white contrast. This may come close!

Diablo 3 also did a great take on Heaven. Of course, it was demons taking over, and gradually corrupting Heaven so it no longer resembled Heaven, but that’s just details.

Yeah, Bayonetta did some decent Heaven monsters.

Only if they were set to be deaf. If not, monsters could be activated by hearing gunshots with sound travelling through windows and tiny tunnels. This was already done by the original level designers.

Sure, but either way, they weren’t “wandering” through levels. You activated them by sight or sound. Speedrunners have taken advantage of this for years. You can effectively “short circuit” levels by not firing until absolutely necessary.

I also have problems with that design style, I said as much when I played Doom 2016. It feels very… fake? artificial? Gamey? I know it sounds silly to say at least that last part, in freaking Doom, but i don’t like how the levels are clearly a tunnel that connects a series of ‘skate parks/arenas’, and how every time they would close the door and open it when it’s finished. That happened especially in the later half of the game, where it seemed the level designers where rushed and most of the final levels are just that (it was less obvious in the first half).

I wonder if people like AntedilivuanArk, who said…

loved it because said parts were the ones with the most intense combat, not because they were ‘combat skate park’ areas. Because you can have intense combat with a less samey and restricted level design, as many old FPS showed.

My $.02 as someone who has played a lil’ bit of Doom.

Doom Eternal is looking good, it’s a bigger & better sequel. More varied scenarios, more types of monsters with their own special abilities, more weapon accessories and new weapons, improved gore, and whole ‘Doomguy is a legendary Doomslayer that demons and even humans fear’ schtik is pretty cool.

Although it doesn’t seem to fix my previous two issue, the health system and the closed skate arenas.

For the latter I already have written a bit. I will add that one of the problems is how literally removes importance of good level design to the game, as the arenas themselves are more akin to DM maps, a series of interconnected tunnels/platforms in a closed loop pattern where the player jumps around and fight, putting all the importance in the combat. And the combat is good, but I also enjoy good and varied level design mixed in. Maybe some map is full of traps and tricky encounters, maybe another it used narrow and dark passages, maybe another it has chasms and big enemies you have to run away from, maybe another uses switches to open up new passages to old areas revealing how interconnected was everything, a la Dark Souls.
I also feel it removes importance of the exploration part of the game (keys, ammo/health, switches, secrets), and imo it’s better when the exploration part and the combat part are joined together in a cohesive whole, instead having a clear delineation.

For the first point (health system), I find the gore kills annoying, I wish they just dropped the health or ammo on spot when they die, and have it disappear after x seconds so you are still promoting a close quarter combat style if it’s what you want. In fact the mod Rekkr from classic Doom used that same system.
In addition to the ‘annoying’ factor, it messes up with the difficulty and pace of the game in ways I’m not convinced. In a way, the problem is that it gives the player enough freedom to worsen their own experience with the game. Because potentially almost every enemy can drop resources, the most efficient way of playing is abusing the system, this makes the game easier (more plentiful resources) than it should be. The solution then, if the game is easy? Just increase the difficulty. But then what you are doing is ensuring the player HAS to abuse the system, methodically goreying every enemy.

I don’t think that’s abuse – that’s how you’re supposed to play it. I was concerned that the glory killing would get old, fast, but even by the end I was still enjoying the rhythm of combat and particularly the movement, verticality and scale of the arenas. I also enjoyed the exploration and secret hunting, poring over the 3D map and identifying odd gaps and seemingly inaccessible areas and working out how to get to them. It reminded me of Metroid Prime at times.

Same here. In the end I probably spent more than 50% of my time in Doom 2016 exploring empty areas looking for secrets. I enjoyed most of that, but sometimes I did get annoyed with myself for not moving on sooner when I finally gave up looking in certain spots.

I thought Doom 2016 was a great game as well and I definitely enjoyed my time with it, but I did not care for the glory kill stuff at all. To me, I thought it destroyed the pacing of the combat. Instead of constantly being aware of my surroundings and maneuvering accordingly, every few seconds I was pressing a button and getting sucked into a mini cut scene where I couldn’t take damage. It was completely stupid, and I really hope they do away with it in the sequel.

I loved Doom 2016 and Eternal looks even better. My only real complaint with Doom 2016 is I found the bosses too hard on Normal difficulty and too easy on Easy difficulty, but that’s a me problem.

I think the problem is how binary it makes the combat, or your are doing it well and as you kill enemies you recover health so you always maintain that pattern, or you reach HP 0 and you die. The game flip flops between being perfect and being dead.
There are less occasions where you are simply fighting carefully for a while because you have 35 hp.

This guy has played it. He says the combat arenas are there, but this time they feel a bit different because most monsters are already ‘spawned’ in there. It also feels harder than before, maybe to compensate the new ‘1up’ powerup you collect.

Good video except for his vocal fry and use of visually stunning.

He didn’t actually say “visually stunning” though, just stunning! We can allow that. (can’t we?)

I like this guy’s takes on FPS games, so this all sounds great to me. As someone who thought the 2016 version’s arenas / gore nests / glory kill mechanics were great ways of keeping the combat moving and interesting, I look forward to how they’ve improved the formula. I should get back and finish the 2016 version though, I was playing on Ultraviolence and it was getting pretty tough!

This has not been my experience at all. When you’re HP is low, you have to play carefully and you have to wait for that opening where you can glory kill a demon to up your health. Those have been some of my most tense moments in Doom: dodging enemies, moving frantically, firing at range, hoping not to get hit by anything – then pouncing when a demon staggers and ripping it apart.