Doom Eternal - Hell on Earth Returns

I’d challenge that because Eternal already escalates very quickly.

Even in a sequel, you cannot expect someone to get used to too many abilities at once. The slow introduction of things allows the player to get them ingrained one by one. Otherwise it’s either a total mess, or the requirement to replay the same 100 times until you got everything nailed down.

I’d actually argue the opposite, it’s fun from the first room. It doesn’t waste time, as long you disable the tutorials and pop-ups.

This isn’t my read on either piece at all and it comes across a lot like you’re putting words in their mouths. You’ve narrowly focussed in to a couple of areas where the designers have made a considered change, are proud and happy with it and explain why, then increased the scope of that statement exponentially to being “the entire game is perfect”. I just don’t see that spelled out in either article. For example the 2nd link is about the entirely cosmetic locational damage system they put in makes it hard to go back to 2016 just from a purely aesthetic perspective - and given the nature of these games, I kinda find it hard to really critique that.

You are right that the second link is not a great example. I found another interview, earlier in the week, that was a better example of what I meant, but I read it on another device and I couldn’t find the link.

Anyway, maybe I am reading too much into it/putting words in their mouths, but re-reading those pieces … yeah, I still can’t shake my original reaction. Blame it on me being a human, and thus having biases and tics that don’t make sense, even when I can recognize them. If I’m wrong about what they’re trying to see, well, that’s probably a good thing. This is a case where me being wrong would be for the better.

Summary: the “git good” isn’t about drawing a line on the ground between good and bad players. It’s instead about the PROCESS, not the result. These types of games are fun because the process that pushes you to become better is fun, is demanding, challenging, eventually rewarding. Once you got good, the game is done. The process, not the result. Same as in Dragonball the point isn’t about winning a fight, but the story that leads up to the fight, the training, the escalation of powers and the way they surpass each other. Getting good, not gotten good.

I appreciate your long response to my post, so please believe me that I don’t say this to troll, but I’m not really sure what to make of all your remarks in this thread. My read (and as we just established, my read of other people’s words may not be great!) is that you oscillate between “I’m not interested in judging how/what people play” and “I’m totally interested in judging people for playing gratifying, ‘low effort’ games”. It leaves me feeling a lot of whiplash.

I mean, upthread you flat out said “Btw, Doom 2016 wasn’t fun” in response to someone who mentioned how much they enjoyed Doom 2016. That’s exactly the kind of attitude that I spoke of as turning me off - the kind of ultra assertive claims with little to no wiggle room or interest in opposing viewpoints.

I mean I can tell you right now that I loved D2016 at the time. Even if I walk away feeling that DE is a better designed game, I don’t see anything in it that is going to make it match the overall feeling of joy and fun that I had playing D2016 back when it was brand new. Are you going to tell me those feelings are wrong? I’m genuinely trying to understand where you are coming from.

Nobody really understands HRose. It’s part of his charm.

Because most people generally write from point of view, whereas I’m descriptive. Emphasis on the descriptive rather than personal.

Reread what you write, and nowhere you mention that you liked 2016, or why.

What you mention is a list of Eternal’s flaws, without motivation. You say the early hours are not nearly as good, but you don’t say why. You criticize pacing, tone and mechanics, but still don’t explain anything about them.

You also say the game gets easier, and it’s something that objectively happens in 2016 significantly more. The early game is way, way harder, and it’s universally known. It even takes a few levels in 2016 to get double jump, that in Eternal you have from the beginning. But I’ve discussed all these in details (like how in Eternal you have damage protection during glory kills, whereas in 2016 you can be killed during them).

The wrong choice because you select micro missiles over sniper? That’s what, half a level before you can switch at will between both? Very arbitrary. (I actually prefer micromissiles because Eternal isn’t the kind of game where you stop and aim)

There are instead plenty of reasons why someone might like 2016 compared to Eternal. The aesthetic is a lot grittier and more serious in 2016. Graphics in general are better. Eternal is more silly, garish. The levels were more dedicated to active exploration, rather than being open arenas. They are so different as game types that it’s normal that as whole packages some prefer one and not the other.

Eternal is near perfect from a mechanical perspective. 2016 is a game in another genre, completely different, a lot more forgettable because it does nothing new, or different, and it has objective flaws like the game becoming much easier through the second half and being hugely more dependent on RNG rather than skill.

2016 and Eternal have different targets. Eternal is better at executing its own, than 2016. One can still prefer 2016, because it’s its own thing. Flaws and everything included.

Finally played this on PC GP. It’s nuts. Love everything about except stingy ammo reliance on Glory skills. Surprised how buttery smooth it is on 1080 Ti.

My counter point to that would be, going back and replaying from the start (as one is forced to do in ultra nightmare), I feel absolutely hobbled until I get the dash. If there’s a good reason the plasmaspiders got nerfed it’s probably because of how unforgiving their design was when coupled with the lack of player mobility in the opening sections.

Also, given that it is by far the least unique trick in DE’s book (i.e. a number of games have dash functionality), they probably should’ve worked that in much, much sooner.

Started the second Ancient Gods DLC, and maybe I’m imagining it but it doesn’t seem like as big a step up in difficulty from the first DLC as that was a step up from the main game.

But I may be wrong - it had been a few months between ending the main game and starting the first DLC, so some of that was likely just being rusty. They introduce a couple new enemies that have their own challenge, plus give me a reason to use the full-auto shotgun mod just like those ghosts in the first DLC gave me reason to use the microwave mod for the plasma rifle.

But man, the jumping and swinging do feel much tougher. I’ve seen people using the super shotgun’s meat hook to do some elaborate navigation and shortcuts but hadn’t really tried it myself - and that’s something you’re required to get at least somewhat skilled at to work your way through the levels.

But it’s still Doom and still a lot of fun. I may just try playing again on a higher difficulty someday - I have a feeling I’m going to miss this when it’s gone.

This is why Doom 2016 will always have at least one thing over Doom Eternal: the glorious insanity of snap map. I get that it had some problems; maps were a little flat and one note due to the limited prefabs on offer, but I’d loved to have seen it expanded. If only to get an updated sequel to Gary Busey’s cocaine adventure.

Alas.

Well, I did it, I beat the second DLC. And it did definitely add some complexity and difficulty after the first level - mainly with some tricky new enemies. There’s an infected imp that shows up and always gives me hell when it does - if it hits you, you’re cursed and can’t boost and have impaired damage, both giving and taking. Additionally, the only way to lift the curse is to kill the imp that hit you - and the only way to kill it is with a blood punch. So, often you’re stuck seeking out this one particular imp trying to find someone to glory kill to charge the blood punch. I got wiped out more than once by this trap.

And oh god, that final boss. If you don’t like marauders then you may want to skip this, because it’s basically the king of the marauders. It’s not even really all that hard once you suss out his attacks, and how to draw him out so you can attack him. No, the problem is how dragged out the whole thing is, it’s such a battle of attrition for two reasons: first, he’s got five health bars you’ve got to wear down. Second, if you hit him at the wrong time, or if he manages to hit you with an attack, he’ll heal himself. It’s such a tug of war. Luckily, there’s a checkpoint after the third health bar, you can quit out at that point if you need. And I did, I just got frustrated and stepped back. I still think the boss of the first DLC was more difficult overall, but this second DLC boss was just too much in my opinion.

But overall the whole thing was fun, challenging in (mostly) the right kind of ways, and an interesting learning experience. The game taught me how to play it, even if I wasn’t always the most attentive student. I will set it aside for a while, but I could see myself trying it out again. And in the meantime, there is always Doom 64.

I’d suggest digging in the mod discord, because there’s lot of player-made master levels and horde modes. There’s ton of stuff beside the official content.
(installing/removing mods is also easy)

Rebought this on Steam with both DLCs and some ‘deluxe’ content for less than what the DLC costs on the Bethesda store. Biggest plus is that I can now cast the Bethesda launcher into the fires of hell where it belongs.

The Bethesda Launcher will die sooner rather than later now that it’s part of the Microsoft collective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6_rMEEEY6s

Did the game have RTX features before? I haven’t followed this one.

It did not have RTX features.

Wow, without even watching the video, just that splash image looks gorgeous. Shiny floors for the win!

Ah nice, well then its improved!

Heck I still haven’t played DOOM 2016.

I have to admit now that I’ve seen the video, I stopped noticing the reflections almost right away when the action heated up. It reminds me of when I saw screens of Quake 2 RTX and it looked great, but when I played it myself I immediately stopped noticing and it made no difference.

It’s a good reminder though that I need to jump back into Doom Eternal and try it again. Unlike Necromanda this game has physics and enemies have weight and stuff.

Exactly this. And Doom (Eternal) is the kind of game where I’d happily sacrifice fidelity for extra 50 fps, assuming you have a monitor that supports high refresh rate.

Hey, the next-gen console updates are available today!

Wow, does the PS5 not support VRR and variable rate shading?

Savegames don’t transfer from PS4->5 either. I can’t imagine why.

I definitely want to try this out on both PC and Series X. Ray tracing mode that I’ll never actually notice! Yay!