1621

It still is.

Sure, when something is good we tend to want more but come on…

  • The Witcher 2 - single character story RPG
  • Dragon Age 2 - single character story RPG
  • Mass Effect 3 - single character story RPG

…and all coming out this year.

Again, I’ll eventually buy all of them, it’s just that variety, for me, would have been better.

Ah, so the only gaming companies left in existence in the world are CD Projekt and Bioware. Which world are we talking about again?

1622

Come now Murbella, if you want to talk about Mass Effect, you can do much better.

1623

It does?

1624

Hey hong, ever heard of the “multiquote” feature this board software has?

1625

It’s called “multiquote” hong.

1626

Now look what you made me do.

1627

I’m starting to think this forum needs Moderators and a warnings system.

Tony

1628

Optimistic Eurogamer preview.

The dialogue is surprisingly fresh and cutting, and although the characters still seem slightly more mannequin-like than their glittering-eyed futuristic cousins in Mass Effect, they exude a lot more charm and humanity than did before.

On consoles, you’ll still be able to pause the action and cue up attacks and strategies for team-mates before letting rip. On PC the tactical view may have been very slightly reigned in, but the trade-off allows for more complex geometry, with hills and steps and split-levels, all of which can be used tactically.

1629

I am fine with relationships with NPCs, even the occasional romance, but there are other kinds of relationships. It’s partly how BioWare designs them so that you know you’ve won when your character hops in the sack, and partly BioWare’s desire to be provocative about everything lately. In DA:O, my camp began to feel less like a band of adventurers and more like a traveling '70s office party.

1630

The predictable structure is the main problem. As with the whole click on person in camp to get next bit of dialog approach. It’s like character interactions are designed on a particularly straightforward spreadsheet. Actually spreadsheets are too flexible. It’s like someone photocopied a particularly basic form some years ago, and Bio still have a process which requires them to use ‘design form A.’

1631

I am just annoyed that Alister (the NPC from DA) didn’t have a male romance option. He was totally set up for it. His fantasy from that dream realm was NOT to marry a pretty girl, but to hang out with his sister and her family. Then when some option to marry an NPC woman, he is totally dead set against it.

But then our male on male choices are always “faggy”. Why can’t we have a real masculine romance option? Why is it ALWAYS a swishy, limp wristed choice?

I think I know, and its because game developers can’t do a subtle romance thing in games. It is always designed for the most brain dead quickest conversation tree to land you in the cinematic sack with said NPC.

I generally play a nice guy in RPGs and you know, I always get ambushed by the female romance options and it pisses me off. Some NPC chick is sad for whatever reason, I try and cheer her up and the next thing I know she has he tung down my throat. What gives? How did I get from, “I am sorry your brother died” to “You are the love of my life” in two conversation steps? It seems to me that you have to play a cold-hearted dick-head in order to avoid this kind of thing.

1632

the trade-off allows for more complex geometry, with hills and steps and split-levels
One of my favorite Bioware meta games is to look for the tiny incremental improvements to their space dungeon engines. But I think those things were already in the last game.

1633

The world where people are talking about upcoming RPG’s?
The world where people pay for games they like regardless of what others think and/or say?
The world where people try to discuss what could be better about a game so they can throw even more money at the developers?
The world where not everyone sucks Bioware’s Mass Effect cock like you like to do every so often?

1634

I think this is a pretty good description of the issue, but I can’t blame Bioware overly much for it. A large part of their target group is the decidedly not-quite-so-mature, and do you remember your “romantic” feelings back in those days? I remember mine. <shudders>

1635

I honestly didn’t have any problem with the camp and, in fact, found it was a pretty clever way to handle “at your own speed” interactions with the party. If you want to be chatty and move an NPC’s subplot along then, well, there you go. If you don’t you can all but ignore the camp.

The party camp is an old RPG tradition in tabletop and it’s nice to see it crop up in an RPG (it may have before but never like this). Folks let their hair down, RP a bit and so on before setting off the next day. The only thing missing was assigning a watch rotation!

Relationships felt much more, I dunno, organic in DA than ME (I haven’t pursued one in ME2 yet). The potential for miscommunications, or unexpected responses, allowed it to play back and forth for a while in a way that felt a bit more natural than the abrupt, “Here you go!”, way things played out in ME1.

How could you not love the interactions other characters had with the wardog? Or Leliana’s portfolio of stories (more songs too next time!)? I’d sometimes just let her ramble on when I had to be AFK much as I’d do with ME’s audio Codex entries. That she breaks into song once was great. And the ambush in camp?! Who really saw that coming the first time after you’d been lulled into a false sense of security? And how cool was it to see all your party members fighting at one time for a change?

I’d like more “camp” in DA2. I’d also like to see more interactions between NPCs to give me a better sense of how the group comes together or fractures. ME2 did this a couple times, most notably with Jack and Miranda, but I wouldn’t have minded seeing if anything came up with Kasumi and Jacob given how she was prone to dwell on the subject.

That it seems they’re giving NPCs more context, with each other, to work in will help a great deal in the suspension of disbelief department. As Shepherd I started getting just a little self-conscious about how the whole world seemed to revolve entirely around me. I can’t help but think that the whole Jacob’s dad sidequest was a commentary about just how self-important, and power abusing, Shepherd himself can easily become given how the game’s set up.

1636

That’s the ongoing dilemma for every game developer: as production costs go up, the less incentive there is to create content which most gamers won’t ever experience. Try to add in branching pathways - each of which needs to be play-tested, bug-fixed, game-balanced, etc. separately as well as in tandem - and the scale of complexity goes up enormously.

In general I prefer fewer richer options to multiple shallow ones; give me one or two meaty Origins rather the half-dozen shallow ones we got in DA:O. Part of why I prefer ME to DA is Shepard is an actual person; the Gray Warden is largely a cipher, in part because your origin doesn’t have that much bearing on the gameplay or the plot or your character development.

1637

I fail to notice any requirement in your post that we must restrict our attention to RPGs:

[indent]Sure, when something is good we tend to want more but come on…

  • The Witcher 2 - single character story RPG
  • Dragon Age 2 - single character story RPG
  • Mass Effect 3 - single character story RPG

…and all coming out this year.

Again, I’ll eventually buy all of them, it’s just that variety, for me, would have been better. [/indent]

There is plenty of variety around in gaming, probably more now than there has ever been. You don’t even have to look very hard for it. I hear there is a game called “Minecraft”, for starters. It isn’t single-character, it doesn’t have any storyline worth mentioning, but it is an RPG!

The world where people pay for games they like regardless of what others think and/or say?

I see. By your whining tone, I thought we were talking about the world where people pay for games they don’t like regardless of what others think or say. My bad.

The world where people try to discuss what could be better about a game so they can throw even more money at the developers?

Ah yes, the so-called “the only method of feedback is complaining” trick. We have dismissed those claims.

The world where not everyone sucks Bioware’s Mass Effect cock like you like to do every so often?

Now come on. Apparently lots of ppl want to talk about Mass Effect. Just look:

[indent]So, my question is this: They already had a story-driven, single character RPG which was assisted in it’s rise to fame and glory by companions: Mass Effect.
Why turn Dragon Age into Fantasy Mass Effect?[/indent]

I do hope you’re not going to claim a privileged position in terms of talking about Mass Effect without having your opinions challenged. That would certainly not do the atmosphere of open discourse on this here newsgroup any good.

1638

This is why I prefer the ME2 approach. It basically replaces out-of-game NPC banter with actual quests, in which you discover more about your companions’ personalities and backgrounds and can change their outlook through gameplay.

1639

There are also quests related to the party NPCs in Dragon Age too. And I agree, it’s frankly more interesting wandering down a side path that tells you more about the characters around you than some big battle to save the world. The former might have some surprises. The latter, well, it really never does.

1640

Maybe because this is the Dragon Age thread? There are multiple threads to talk about other games, and considering DA is an RPG what is the point on talking about upcoming RTS or FPS?

It isn’t single-character, it doesn’t have any storyline worth mentioning, but it is an RPG!

The difference is between an RPG where you play a character you create, name and customize and an RPG where you play a character created by the game designers.

By your whining tone, I thought we were talking about the world where people pay for games they don’t like regardless of what others think or say. My bad.

I didn’t whine at all and for me the world where you pay for something you don’t like is the world of idiots.
Maybe because I don’t think others should/have to enjoy the same things I do but occasionally people find common tastes.

I do hope you’re not going to claim a privileged position in terms of talking about Mass Effect without having your opinions challenged.

Challenge at all, but try to make sense instead of derailing and talking about everything BUT the topic: how Dragon Age was changed from one expansion to another. The funny thing is, I never said anything about the quality of Mass Effect, I merely stated that DA2 was going to be more like Fantasy Mass Effect than a proper sequel to DA.

Here, I’ll make it simple:

I don’t like how they changed the game but I respect and understand that others might like it; however, I don’t have to agree with them on what makes the game good or bad, that’s called personal opinion.
Simple enough for you?