DRM is increasing piracy rather than decreasing piracy. (Gabe Newell)

This made me L. ROFL, even.

We will ultimately just suck it down and you know it. I moved back to Germany after twenty years of living in Spain, but I’ll probably be leaving again. Fuck these German laws. I want to make barbeque when I’m on the mood, not when some law says it’s ok. I want to wash my car whenever and wherever I want. I’m 31 years old and I want blood in my games. Screw this German BS.

“You’re going to be touching [your customers] not every three years but every three weeks — and hopefully even more often than that.

Gabe Newell wants to touch you often.

When you buy, say, Orange Box at retail, you’re not using your credit card for anything.

Paying people off? Last I checked (for reference, it was 2 years ago) some of my old buddies (they moved away) had something on their computer called [name of pirate Steam removed after 2 seconds of forethought]. Anyways, my point is this: you can, or at least could, pirate steam games, and it was so easy that my idiot friends in 11th grade were able to do it. I remember him showing me that he had HL2, Garry’s Mod, and Might and Magic or whatever that game is where you can kick people into fire/off cliffs, all for free.

Well, you can even “play” WoW on those open (translation: pirate) servers. Except that instead of playing against hundreds of thousands of people, you’ll be playing against ten 13 year old wannabe hackers, and you’ll see no instanced stuff, I guess.

Maybe I’m naive here, but I would assume Steam has some sort of failsafe for detecting when/if unpaid for keys go live.

Unless the people doing this are actively changing their IP every time they log into a different account, over a certain period of time it’s going to be pretty obvious that it’s the same person on all of those accounts. Say then you sell one of your accounts/games. Suddenly one of your 20 accounts (I think 20 games on Steam is a good average, since the Christmas sale anyway heh) starts logging in from a different IP (one that 20 other accounts have probably been recorded logging in from as well) while all your other accounts stay on the same IP. If Valve suspects that you are engaged in activites that break the ToU, they have pretty strong evidence to just ban all 20 of your accounts.

Section 2-E, paragraph 2.

I guess that if someone is really determined to be able to sell individual Steam games, resetting their router to get a new IP every once in a while is not that much of a hurdle.

But in the end, for me it comes down to this: I like OWNING my games, so I’m not touching Steam with a twenty foot pole for anything except Valve’s own titles, and to date I’ve only bought two of them: retail HL1 and HL2.

You can’t use the “twenty foot pole” thing and then say “except”.

Why? I think I last logged in to Steam when I bought and played HL2, because I was required to. When was that, 2004? After that, I never used it for anything.

I find it interesting, Format, that essentially your definition of owning something is based on whether you can resell it or not. The very nature of digital media brings some complications to that reasoning.

Yeah, I don’t want to re-hash the whole re-selling argument, since that’s apparently what the batshit insane OP wants, so I’ll just say that your incredibly weirdly defined principles are causing you to miss out on some very good games.

In what way do you not own them with Steam? It’s not like they are charging you rent.

And yeah, I know what you are getting at–it’s the “But what if Steam goes bust sometime in the future, and I want to play my old games?” I think it’s a sort of silly thing to get hung up on, though. If I someday want to play an old game that I bought through Steam, and Steam is no longer around, at that point I’ll probably be able to pick up a disc copy in the bargain bin for $5 anyway (or buy it from GoG), so who cares? The remote possibility that I may have to someday pay a nominal fee to replay an old game seems like a pretty minor downside to me, especially considering that the percentage of games that I ever go back and replay is very small.

The reselling argument is even sillier. PC games just don’t hold their value enough for me to even care.

Just to echo Cubit: that concept of ownership is interesting. For me, it feels even more like ownership to own the Steam version of a game, because then I don’t have to buy another copy of the game if my copy ever gets destroyed or lost somehow. Lost the disc for Half Life 2? Doesn’t matter. Steam knows I own it, really own it, so I never have to buy another disc, and I can even install it on multiple computers under my account, because I own it, and Steam knows I own it.

Points taken.

Technically, the Steam subscriber agreement allows them to terminate your ‘subscription’ (their term for any purchase through Steam) to a game and revoke your Steam access to it (section 13.C), without any reason or refund (section 4.B), which might make some people uneasy about whether they truly own the games or not.

It would be a horrid PR move to just start screwing over users like that for no good reason though, so it only really becomes a concern if Valve gets in so much trouble that they’re forced to sell to less-scrupulous sorts that want to ditch old obligations and just raid the company, or something, and even then ideally Newell would get his “let them loose” plan in first.

I bet if this ever actually happened someone would figure out how to edit the appropriate files to make your version of Steam think that the termination order was never given, then you could set your computer to restrict Steam from the internet completely and permanently and just keep playing your singleplayer games in offline mode. All Valve multiplayer would die, but then the crackers would find a way to get around that too, like by using VLANs or something.

Can you imagine if Hookers was the code for Steam and Steam was the code for Hookers?

This thread is full of win.

chet, can you confirm or deny the statement that valve pays off hackers to not release keygens? i’m dying to know more about this claim!