There is a big difference in being polite and courteous and letting someone run ramshod all over you.
It depends on the problem. If the problem is “Your loud stereo keeps me up at midnight”, then the person should be willing to make some sort of accomodation. If it’s “Your lawn looks unkempt when you go two weeks without mowing it”, then drunkenly barging in on your neighbor and insulting him isn’t an appropriate course of action.
Sometimes the ability to get along with others is realizing that sometimes giving in isn’t the same thing as letting someone “run ramshod all over you”.
It must feel real good walking through life with a keen sense of right and wrong and that people who disagree with you obviously have what’s coming to them.
Call me a bleeding heart liberal apologist, but I see it as “This guy wants to live in a nice neighborhood, he’s non-confrontational when sober, and this is something he wants to get off his chest”
So instead of thinking of it as “Oh, man, you fucking really offended me” I’d look at it as “Well, that could have been handled better, but maybe he has a legit complaint”. Believe it or not people often have very difficult time with potentially confrontational situations because they can easily go south depending on the mood of the participants.
I’m having a hard time right now in fact. My brand new neighbor has a cocker spaniel and currently that animal is tied out in back. Our covenants are pretty clear that tie outs are not allowed. These are BRAND NEW neighbors, and I really don’t want their first impressions of us to be “Hey, could you shut your fucking dog up and maybe put up a fence or an invisible fence since you’re breaking covenants right now?”
As you can tell by this thread, I’m Mr. Let’s Get Along, so I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. My wife is irritable because the dog yaps until midnight, but then I have to remind her that OUR dogs will sit at our back fence and bark a lot louder.
But, you know, that’s okay, because our dogs are only barking “at things that matter” (like joggers and other dogs). It’s that pattern of “our behaviour is acceptable, but theirs isn’t because of this arbitrary line I’m drawing” that I’m trying to stamp out of my life.
So my choices are A.) suck it up; B.) talk to them about it; or C.) call the neighborhood association and have THEM deal with it. Frankly, the safest bet is C. but that’s fucking lame. I don’t feel we should HAVE to suck it up, so A.) is out, which means that it’ll be B., but I’m willing to give them time to get their shit sorted out given they just moved here.
But I have friends that think I’m a pussy because I’m willing to let the neighbors acclimate and see if they’re putting in an invisible fence or something. I’m being “too accomodating”. They think I’m crazy when I say “You know, life’s too short to get pissed about how everyone else is inconveniencing me”.
Nah, I hear (okay, read) you. I also get the impression that you’d be caught dead before you actually went strolling into Stroker’s place barefoot and drunk to harangue him about his lawn. It sounds to me like his neighbor doesn’t have a legit complaint, but since I don’t live in the neighborhood, I obviously can’t judge that for certain. He certainly was out of line in the way he dealt with it, though.
If I were in Stroker’s place, I wouldn’t have any trouble if my neighbor chose your option B. Sure, I might be a little annoyed (nobody likes to have someone else criticizing the way they keep their yard), but I’d be receptive. I would not be receptive to what his neighbor did. I’m not remotely interested in giving my neighbors the impression that the way to get me to do something is to be drunk and aggressive.
There’s nothing wrong at all with being a good neighbor. But given a choice between the guy with the unkempt yard and the drunk guy who crashes my parties, I’ll take the shaggy lawn every time.
I would have walked outside and lit the lawn on fire. Maybe throw some gasoline around first for effect and then walk through it like a badass. You know, like Sephiroth. Show your neighbor that you’re crazy and you shouldn’t mess with him. Maybe kill a dog if one walks by.
You’d really be surprised at how many problems this approach can solve.
By the way, Bacon, I didn’t mean to offend you, or call you a pushover, or say anything like that. It’d be nice if everyone got along and was always accomodating. Clearly society would be nicer if everyone was more civil.
For some reason, someone coming to my front door and threatening me just kind of bugged me in that particular situation. I’m (somewhat, I guess) nice and friendly and accomodating . . . to a point.
Yes. I understand maybe his actions, but don’t defend them.
If I were in Stroker’s place, I wouldn’t have any trouble if my neighbor chose your option B.
Everyone says they can handle criticism but usually can’t. I was talking to one of the instructors at my aikido dojo and he was upset that a couple students quit without telling him why. I was like “Maybe they think you suck? Maybe they think aikido is a joke? Maybe they don’t like some of the other students? If they’ve quit, why would they end it with ‘…and it’s because you suck as a teacher and I hate the other students’”
And he was like “Well, then, we can improve those things”. Which sounds good in theory, but rarely works that way in practice.
Not saying YOU can’t handle criticism, only that I don’t blame the average person for being uncomfortable with laying out criticism, even when requested.
“Do I look fat in these pants?”
I would not be receptive to what his neighbor did. I’m not remotely interested in giving my neighbors the impression that the way to get me to do something is to be drunk and aggressive.
I agree. What I would probably have done is said “Hey, you know, I appreciate your concerns, but I’d be more comfortable talking about this when you’re sober, and I’d prefer it if you treated me with some respect when you’re at my home, okay?”
The delivery doesn’t negate the concerns though.
When I lived in San Diego I was really slack ass about my yard because, well, it was a godddamned acre of wild grass along with a lot of dirt in the front yard. I didn’t have time to get sod put in with a sprinkler system, and I lived in the boonies, so figured “wtf?”
My neighbor at the time was trying to sell his house. He handled it very graciously by basically guilting me into it. He came by and said “Hey, I see you just moved in…if you don’t get some sod down those weeds are gonna take over if you’re not careful. If you want, I can give you a hand getting that stuff installed!”
I was somewhat shamed into acting, hired a landscaper, and problem solved. Neighbor never said a word about it again because he made his point without going “HEY, ASSHOLE, I’M TRYING TO SELL MY FUCKING HOUSE HERE, SHOW SOME CLASS YOU TRASHY FUCK”
Point being that there are ways to get a point across and to solve confrontation without starting with “Look, I’m right here, so fuck you if you don’t agree” (which I know you weren’t saying).
There’s nothing wrong at all with being a good neighbor. But given a choice between the guy with the unkempt yard and the drunk guy who crashes my parties, I’ll take the shaggy lawn every time.
Sure. No matter how big an asshole someone may be, I’ll still try to listen to their concerns instead of getting my hackles up. I had a poker party one night and a friend brought another friend with him. We’re playing, and I was razzing the new guy in the typical “buncha guys razzing each other way”. I thought it was innocuous enough ribbing, but at some point he basically stood up and said “Dude, you need to shut your mouth, because I’m sick and tired of you talking shit about me constantly”
Now, my FIRST instinct is to go, “Sit the fuck down and don’t you fucking take that tone of voice in my own goddamned house you piece of shit”. But I try not to be like that anymore, so instead I smiled, apologized, and went into the basement to cool off. I came back upstairs and said, eventually, “Hey, sorry man, didn’t realize you’d take it so personally”.
Whereas the biggest part of me wanted to scream at him at the top of my lungs and slam his head into my deck floor for coming into my home and telling me how to behave.
But, dude had a point – I was treating him like a college buddy and he was a complete stranger. He could have handled it better, sure, but it was still my bad – as innocent as it may have been – to treat him that familiarly.
I think I’m a better person for it, but I know I have friends that just obsess over “Man, how could you let someone talk to you like that in your house? At YOUR poker game?” and don’t get the “Well, he had a point” part.
It was no sweat off my back, not like he was ever going to come over again.
Nah, no offense taken at all. I AM a pushover in a lot of ways now that I’ve read this book* that changed my life, but I’m also happier and more functional in society now that I realize that it’s not All About Me.
I’m (somewhat, I guess) nice and friendly and accomodating . . . to a point.
I’m all about the Church of Dalton: “I want you to be nice until it’s time to not be nice.” I just pushed that line a bit farther than in the past.
- Ask me how reading this book changed my life**
** Heh, and right now I’m probably freaking some of my friends out that think I found religion
Why would that be your first instinct? You couldn’t chuckle it off, say “Ok, sure. Have a seat.”
You actually had to go downstairs to cool off? Maybe you shouldn’t be offering advice on this situation.
Whereas the biggest part of me wanted to scream at him at the top of my lungs and slam his head into my deck floor for coming into my home and telling me how to behave.
See above.
What the hell do you think your HOA dues are for anyway? A lack of direct accountability has value that you’ve already paid for. Use it.
Self-control is just a crutch for people who can’t stay truly cool?
Ha! Fair enough. I understand not being comfortable dishing out criticism for that reason, but then he shouldn’t have done it when he was drunk. It’s that part of the story that really bothers me, but we both seem to agree on that point. I try very hard not to do anything drunk that I wouldn’t do sober. Admittedly, it’s a tough principle to adhere to, because whenever it applies, I’m drunk. Still, I hope that if it were that important to me, I’d work up the nerve to approach my neighbor in a lucid state.
Definitely, and the trick is that everyone has a different threshold at which the point actually gets across. I’m hopeless at lawn care. I can mow and trim hedges, but as far as seeding the lawn or fertilizing or any of that is concerned, I don’t have the first clue. My neighbor, on the other hand, is “that neighbor”. Woodland creatures stop by to sip at the artificial streams that he has painstakingly carved into the wooded glade that is his yard. Just being next door to that has been enough to get me to start pulling out the old lawn care books. Ok, book. Meanwhile, the guy on the other side of him is living in a house that is literally falling apart around him, and I think I saw a giant rat swallow a child who walked too close to his yard the other day. But if you’re going to be in a neighborhood, you’ve got to be able to coexist with all of those folks, because they’re in every neighborhood.
Agreed. Just because it’s your house doesn’t mean that you’re always right, no matter how much my dad may have used that line on me in my youth.
Men don’t like to fight, but a lot of boys do.
As a general rule, I am like BTG on this one. If you can, be reasonable first. Most people aren’t intentionally bothering you. They don’t mean to ruin your life. So, if something bothers you enough to do something about it, then talk to your neighbor first. Generally, it works pretty well, but not always. A lot of people just don’t care about anyone but themselves (this still fits with my idea that people aren’t intentionally bothering you…they don’t care about you either way, so they aren’t trying to bother you). This can be worse than intentional maliciousness because thoughtlessness is hard to combat. Even if you threaten a thoughtless person, he/she doesn’t think about you enough to know when not to be annoying.
I had problems with apartment neighbors who slammed their front door all day long (literally 30-50 times a day…or night), played loud music, and thumped bass in the parking lot*. I called management over and over, since these idiots didn’t care about anyone else at all. But it didn’t solve much because they kept doing rude things without thinking about it. I suppose kicking ass would have been a potential solution, but not a very good one. It wouldn’t have changed their behavior and would have made me into the badguy and likely put me in jail too.
In almost every other case, a note or conversation with the neighbor fixed the problem. I also recommend meeting your immediate neighbors as soon as possible after moving in. It establishes a relationship that allows you to talk about any issues that might come up.
*People who thump bass anywhere that others will hear it are complete assholes and one of the few groups of people who deserve to have violence done against them. That kind of attack on other people IS malicious and should be met with swift retribution. You can’t block bass from entering your home, and you can’t cover it with other noises or earplugs or anything else.
“Yes, but it’s not the fault of the pants.”
She never asked me that question ever again.
Yeah, I think that’s the gist.
I laughed.
20-20 hindsight is groovy and all, but just because the guy is so full of cowardly self-loathing he can’t even get over himself when Stroker, IMO, acted like a real man/homeowner/husband and tried to talk to the guy, it doesn’t mean he’s a puss and bungled the whole thing. I mean sure, if he pre-emptively knew that it would go the way it went, his actions seem futile. But going in? All kidding aside, what is he supposed to do? Beat him down with a frying pan and yell out SUCK ON THIS YOU BITCH ASS TRICK while doing so? Not cool, Brownlee.
Here’s what I’d do. Fuck his cat. No wait, I’d roll up the street and talk to the other gay, er, guy. He’s probably the man in the relationship, dealing with a lush for a wife. “Hi, your boy there figured on trying to ruin my party by stumbling in drunk and insulting me in my own house, several times. Now you know that’s not fucking cool, and I don’t care what his problem is, but you tell him he’s not allowed anywhere near my house, unless it’s to apologize. He ruined my wife’s birthday party, and I don’t need you to tell me anything to know this is probably not the first time he’s done something like this. I’m sorry it has to be this way, really, I’d like nothing more than everyone to get along as neighbors, but he did the sort of thing that essentially negates the chance of that. You know?”
If he stumbles over ever again like that, punch him in the fucking face and call the cops. Seriously. Once is Oops, second is Ouch. And you need to have the cops involved so you have more weight when it happens again and you have to kick his ass again. Sooner or later (usually sooner), he’ll get the message.
Oh yeah, and don’t forget to shit in his mailbox.
Oh, I agree. I can understand the initial reaction, but when it became obvious that the neighbor was just drunk and belligerent, it was time to tell him to leave.
Trying to reason with him at that point is just playing into his game.
As far as the noise posts, I go by the rule that:
If they are loud, ask them nicely to be quieter. Next time call the cops and TELL them you are doing so (they usually dont show up, but it can quiet them down)
If they accuse you of being loud, stop and think “Am I being loud?” If yes, stop being loud, jerk. If no, tell them to call the cops (they dont show up, for one and secondly, I’m never louder than I’m legally able to be)
Also if it’s daytime fuck 'em, they can’t hear me over the nearest quincinera oompa oompa mexican regional music anyways.
I used to have an upstair neighbor who fueded with the entire building next door, he’d throw shit, blast german punk back at their hiphop etc… Was really annoying but only due to escalation. I can handle german punk and hiphop seperately, but a vs. match is pretty unbearable.