I think Book 1 Dune is one of the greatest fiction novels of all time, never mind probably the greatest science fiction novel of all time. So that’s absolutely worth everybody’s time to read, whether they are fans of the genre or not. Messianic religion, environmentalism, politics, energy policy, genetics, anagathics, artificial intelligence, predestination. It’s all on the table in Dune. These things are worth reading about, thinking about, and talking about.
Book 2, Dune Messiah is short and not terribly good. You read it only as a prequel to understanding Book 3 - which is longer and much better.
Book 3, Children of Dune has a real story to tell and is worthwhile. It offers a measure of conclusion and closure - at least of a sort. You read Book 2 so Book 3 makes sense - because that journey is worth it.
And the Dune series ended there for quite a while. In the early 80s. Herbert was short a few bob and so came out with Book 4, God Emperor of Dune. It offers true closure and provides some interesting reflections on how much peace and prosperity is too much peace and prosperity? What are the outer limits of the rulership of the most benevolent despot imaginable, and is such a civilization a good one or a bad one to live in? The over-arching philosophical and political discussion is worth having if that’s your thing.
But really, if it’s not diminishing returns by the end of Book 3, it certainly is by the end of Book 4.
After that, books 5 and 6 are separated by so much time and space they contemplate entirely different societies and universes from the one under discussion in Book 1-4. Do not bother with these.
And the raft of novels published by Herbert’s son in any form are not worth it at all. They are essentially authorized fan-fiction.
They aren’t really even as good as most fan fiction.
I think you undersell Dune Messiah, though. VERY different than Dune, but it is Alia’s book, and almost all politics. I think the information in it both reflects Paul’s inability to deal with some things, and also informs Children in important ways. It certainly isn’t the first novel, but as you yourself say, nothing could be.
Well,if Book 1 is what happens along the way to a man becoming a Prophet, Book 2 is the unhappy examination of the alienation that happens to a man-who-IS-a-Prophet – and how horrible that must be for almost everybody involved. He is no longer regarded as human – even if he is, human.
It’s been a while since I read Dune Messiah, but I never enjoyed it much. I didn’t actively dislike it - it just… underwhelms.
But Children of Dune does not underwhelm. I expect you’d agree with me that whatever way we might rate the series through 6 books, 1 is the best and 3 is the next best, no? Can we agree on that? If so – Book 2’s role in setting the stage for 3 is entirely justified, whether you liked it a great deal or not.
Sure, 1 then 3 certainly. Maybe even 4 next. But don’t skip 2, it informs the other books. Provides framework, perhaps. Certainly an external vantage, both Alia’s and IIRC Irulan’s.
At one point in my life I would have said the Dune books are a clear stair-step down in quality from the first book onward. In fact, I said the same thing in this thread about eleven years ago.
But having re-read them last year, I think each of the first four novels are a complete story, and each is necessary in order to tell the story fully. I remember how disappointing Dune Messiah was to me as a teenager, hoping for more epic, gallaxy spanning adventure. But that’s not Messiah’s purpose, and I enjoyed it much more a few decades on. The scope is much narrower, in the same way Paul’s fate has narrowed in to an inescapable future, one that he feared and wouldn’t see through - but which his son would, in the fourth book. But then the third book tells how Leto II gets to the point so - yeah. I’d easily recommend the first four novels.
You may have a very good point there. I recall reading Dune initially as a teenager and I think I got God Emperor in hardcover for Xmas the year it came out - so Xmas 1981, maybe?
I revisited them all through God Emperor again in my early 20s. And perhaps again in my early 30s? At least parts of them. I read through Chapterhouse, I recall that much. And I’ve attempted a few times since - but not really. It tends to end with me just finding my copy of the 2000 SciFi series and watching that (which is under-rated in my view).
It’s time to read them again. And by “read”, I mean “listen”. And that’s a bit of a problem, as it seems that the version on Audible now is more of an abridged pseudo radio-play than a fully realized audiobook in unabridged form. At least it seemed to me to be abridged as I was listening to it the other night.
Unhappy with the version on sale in Audible (which I bought with a monthly credit), guilt free I then went looking for a torrent of the original Dune in unabridged audio form. Sadly, I could not find it.
Yes, it’s a complicated book, as far as broadly popular novels go. Still, why not just deliver that and leave it be? It’s a pretty popular novel. Maybe that’s for a damned good reason?
I can understand offering an abridged radio-play version for those who prefer that – I won’t judge - but not to the exclusion of the unabridged audiobook novel itself. That had my eyes narrowing in anger.
My favourite novel. I’ve read it at least ten times over the last few decades and still get something new from it every time.
The litany of fear (fear is the mindkiller) has been etched in my brain ever since, and I have even chanted it to myself when once upon a time I thought a bear was clawing at my tent.
I liked reading your revisiting of the Dune series. It is in the 2020 Book thread, you should find all the Dune posts there, and link to them in a post here.
Sure, I can do that. Though oddly enough, I can’t find impressions from the first book in that thread, I seemed to start with Dune Messiah. Or maybe I just suck at search.
Here’s a reply I wrote to someone else, basically all I can find regarding impressions of the first book:
Anyway, here’s my post after reading Dune Messiah:
And here’s me after reading Children of Dune:
And here’s a post for God Emperor of Dune:
And here’s my post for Heretics of Dune:
And I wrapped it up with Chapterhouse Dune:
I ended there wondering aloud if I should continue on with Frank Herbert’s son’s books and I decided against. It’s a bummer ending with Chapterhouse - not exactly a cliffhanger, but certainly lots of open questions. If someone were to ask me, I’d say read up through God Emperor and just end it there. The last two are decent, and worth checking out for completionists. But the first four are a complete saga in my mind, and I still think all are very good stories.
This was a wise choice. Also, I don’t know how much they’re really Brian Herbert’s books - Kevin J. Anderson’s name is also on them and it wouldn’t at all be unprecedented for the “collaboration” to mostly consist of Brian Herbert scraping together stuff from his dad’s files and passing them to Kevin J. Anderson to actually write. But I legitimately don’t know. I just know that Kevin J. Anderson is a total hack, and those books are dreadful apart from ideas clearly directly inherited from Frank’s notes.
Reading Dune for the first time in preparation for the movie. Only about 150 pages in so far but I’m really enjoying it. I got the 6 book bundle on Kindle.
I am listening now to the so-called current “radio-play” version of Dune now on Audible. I am here to apologize for my post above.
I have not “slugged lines” with the original text, but several hours in, I fear I have greatly misrepresented the audio book of Dune in a significant way. It is the original unabridged text it seems, but the dialog is read by a cast of different people; the narration is by the same consistent reader. It will break up the voice within the same paragraph, between character and narrator.
I take it all back. It’s very well done. I recommend it.
I’ve held off getting it for a long time due to many reviews saying it’s abridged. I’d love to be able to switch off with my kindle but so far I’ve avoided this version.
Yes, that’s the one I am referring to. I saw the same commentaries about it being abridged.
Again, I have not compared the text, line for line, but I now believe those statements to be wrong. I’ve been listening to it for many hours now; I do not believe it is abridged at all. That is why the Audible entry does not say it is abridged - as they almost always do when they are, in fact, abridged.
So I grabbed this and listened to the first chapter while following in the book. The only thing missing from the audio are all descriptions of voices. Everything that is “Lady Jessica said” or describing how it is being said “with a crack in her voice” is removed and performed by the voice actor. This is why the book is a little shorter than the last traditional audiobook version.
