Dungeons of Dredmor - Graphical Roguelike-ish Awesomeness

[ravenight]

I’m … not a big fan of the extra inventory space for crafting skills idea, though it has a lot of proponents on the Gaslamp forums. We’ll likely have to end up adding something like this. A lot of the inventory issues come from the sheer number of items we have - ten different cheeses and so on - and the fact that you can’t stack un-like items. If we had only one cheese rather than ten, if we had strict linear progressions of item types with no tangents for dumb jokes, inventory would be much cleaner. It also wouldn’t be Dredmor.
Maybe we’ll put in bags of holding somehow.

One possible solution here is to give everyone a grinder and let you grind down items to create other ingredients. Of course that might unbalance some of the current recipes that expect certain ingredients to be rare. On the other hand, you could then add some recipes that do things like add random enchants (or temporary ones)…

[dbaum]

Hey, anyone interested in participating in the Awful Dredmor Patch Beta Testing Program?

If you like crashes and terrible errors and confusion and getting your game reset and seeing all the new stuff before everyone else (really selling it, aren’t I), just send an email off to contact [at] gaslampgames.com saying that you’re from Qt3 and you’d like to help out with the Dredmor patch beta. Note that you do need Steam for this. This does not affect your base Dredmor game install.

@ravenight :
Recipes are are defined as one exact (set of) item(s) into one other. It’s a pretty rigid system.

So for instance to make rust we have separate recipes for each item that is rusty-looking to turn into rust via the grinder – a bit of a pain. Ideally we could tag items as “iron” or “rustable” or something and let the grinder handle rust-making. And the recipe book UI is pretty bad. And I’d worry someone would find a production chain that would give more material back on each reaction, but I’ve been good about avoiding that thus far.

… Oh, the things I’d do differently. It’s far from an ideal system. But we’ll keep adding to the pile of crafting through patches and perhaps expansions. Enchantments via crafting are planned, actually. We thought to do them earlier but they got put to the side with all the work needing to be done on launch but I’m sure they’ll make another appearance.

[jpinard]

Hey, anyone interested in participating in the Awful Dredmor Patch Beta Testing Program?

If you like crashes and terrible errors and confusion and getting your game reset and seeing all the new stuff before everyone else (really selling it, aren’t I), just send an email off to contact [at] gaslampgames.com saying that you’re from Qt3 and you’d like to help out with the Dredmor patch beta. Note that you do need Steam for this. This does not affect your base Dredmor game install.

@ravenight :
Recipes are are defined as one exact (set of) item(s) into one other. It’s a pretty rigid system.

So for instance to make rust we have separate recipes for each item that is rusty-looking to turn into rust via the grinder – a bit of a pain. Ideally we could tag items as “iron” or “rustable” or something and let the grinder handle rust-making. And the recipe book UI is pretty bad. And I’d worry someone would find a production chain that would give more material back on each reaction, but I’ve been good about avoiding that thus far.

… Oh, the things I’d do differently. It’s far from an ideal system. But we’ll keep adding to the pile of crafting through patches and perhaps expansions. Enchantments via crafting are planned, actually. We thought to do them earlier but they got put to the side with all the work needing to be done on launch but I’m sure they’ll make another appearance.

sent (didn’t say QT3 in title though). Very cool it won’t affect the base-game.

Daum, Haven’t read the patch notes yet, but I do have a suggestion. As I’m finally playing a crafting class (smithing) it truely is a pain to work with the same inventory a non-crafter deals with. I think for smith’s (maybe others), one of the bonus’s should be one extra row or column of inventory space. A column would give them 6 extra slots, and a row would give them 8 extra slots. Maybe it could be at the cost of the health point(s) that the smithy class gives you (for balancing)?

[Alstein]

I like the idea of crafting skills increasing your inventory, perhaps tie it to level?

[Thasero]

Email sent!

I found that I gradually became less annoyed with the need to carry extra crafting-stuff in my inventory over time - mainly because, as I got used to the dungeon economy, I had a better sense of which items were actually valuable and which I could safely pitch. But I don’t think “users eventually become numb to the pain!” is a good justification for all the inventory-fiddling that sometimes becomes necessary. Plus, you won’t really know which items are useful to keep around unless you’ve read spoilers for all of the crafting recipes.

When I switch from a build that does crafting to a build that has none, I always notice a dramatic speed boost - “Hey, I’ve only been playing a short time and I’m already at Dlvl 4! …Right, because I don’t have to poke my inventory to rearrange crafting materials all the time.”

[jpinard]

I like the idea of crafting skills increasing your inventory, perhaps tie it to level?

Email sent!

I found that I gradually became less annoyed with the need to carry extra crafting-stuff in my inventory over time - mainly because, as I got used to the dungeon economy, I had a better sense of which items were actually valuable and which I could safely pitch. But I don’t think “users eventually become numb to the pain!” is a good justification for all the inventory-fiddling that sometimes becomes necessary. Plus, you won’t really know which items are useful to keep around unless you’ve read spoilers for all of the crafting recipes.

When I switch from a build that does crafting to a build that has none, I always notice a dramatic speed boost - “Hey, I’ve only been playing a short time and I’m already at Dlvl 4! …Right, because I don’t have to poke my inventory to rearrange crafting materials all the time.”

yes and yes. The extra row/column could even be greyed ( to eventually be ungreyed) if Gaslamp needed to maintain the same graphic for the backpack.

[Warren]

@ravenight :
Recipes are are defined as one exact (set of) item(s) into one other. It’s a pretty rigid system.

So for instance to make rust we have separate recipes for each item that is rusty-looking to turn into rust via the grinder – a bit of a pain. Ideally we could tag items as “iron” or “rustable” or something and let the grinder handle rust-making. And the recipe book UI is pretty bad. And I’d worry someone would find a production chain that would give more material back on each reaction, but I’ve been good about avoiding that thus far.

… Oh, the things I’d do differently. It’s far from an ideal system. But we’ll keep adding to the pile of crafting through patches and perhaps expansions. Enchantments via crafting are planned, actually. We thought to do them earlier but they got put to the side with all the work needing to be done on launch but I’m sure they’ll make another appearance.

Enchanting tied into the crafting sounds like an intriguing change … you guys should go for it

[jpinard]

dbaum(& Nicholas Vining) - saw the blog update. How are those beta keys coming? Hope to get t play with the beta tonight to see what’s in store.

Also, if I lived within 300 miles of PAX I’d be there for drinks and dinner. I keep staying up late every night as I just don’t want to stop playing. Very few games do that to me nowadays.

[wilykat]

re “water finds a crack”: it annoys me that dropping 20 softballs into my lutefisk cube gives me 5 lutefisk (or 4, I forget) but splitting the stack into single items by opening a crafting box and doing a ton of clicking gives me 20 lutefisk. I don’t want to waste my time doing all that clicking but I get all twitchy when I know I’m doing something suboptimally.

• Mike

[Tyjenks]

re “water finds a crack”: it annoys me that dropping 20 softballs into my lutefisk cube gives me 5 lutefisk (or 4, I forget) but splitting the stack into single items by opening a crafting box and doing a ton of clicking gives me 20 lutefisk. I don’t want to waste my time doing all that clicking but I get all twitchy when I know I’m doing something suboptimally.

• Mike

What is worse is accidentally picking the Lutefisk up out of the box and then having to replace it and your total is cut by 75% or whatever it is…Arrrrrggggh.

[Lazy_Shiftless_Basta]

What is worse is accidentally picking the Lutefisk up out of the box and then having to replace it and your total is cut by 75% or whatever it is…Arrrrrggggh.

This reminds me of all the times I’ve gotten the weird inventory bug on loading. If you leave things in your Cube or crafting tools when you quit, on reloading they’ll get shuffled around to random other spots in your tools or cube. So I’ve had magic armor sitting in my cube when I opened it and had to go find my stack of 60 lutefisk in my alchemist tools.

[dbaum]

Patch beta keys received today! Nicholas is now trying to figure out how to mail them out without having to do them all individually.

Considering an inventory expansion scheme of some kind, will have to figure out what would fit in with existing UI. (And 2x UI is just going to screw everything up, gah headexplode.)

jpinard: Glad we’ve addicted you. Or I think we’re glad. Are we glad? I mean, Play Dredmor Responsibly. We’re glad you’re enjoying it, is all.

I am actually not going to be at PAX or said drinking, sorry to say, but for anywhere there be sure to give Nicholas a hard time for me. It’ll be Fun.

And before I run off - /some/ of the water-finds-a-crack stuff is fixed this patch, but a bunch of issues have been pushed to the next update so that we can sanely beta test and release something sooner rather than way later. Details will be posted somewhere, at some point …

[jpinard]

Patch beta keys received today! Nicholas is now trying to figure out how to mail them out without having to do them all individually.

I don’t think that’s possible unless he writes some kind of script (I could be wrong of course). Maybe just copy/paste address, then copy/paste key in title line. No subject necessary if it doesn’t need to be sent as a link. No need for a form letter then.

[JeffL]

found pretty much the perfect setup to win the game quickly.

basically all you need is alchemy, fire mage and burglary.

1. xp and train maxed alchemy, trap of exploding and ninja vanish
2. create staff of fruit and couple of fire orbs for stat boost and mana regen.
3. farm some fruit for unlimited mana
4. win (when you get orbs and enough booze, you can skip rest of the levels and go kill dredmor)

you can dump rest of the skill points towards trap related skills (preception, archaelogy) and more mana regen (blood mage is very nice when clearing monster zoos with area effect spells). I’m sure teleport from mathemagic is nice, but its not needed because ninja vanish is pretty much the perfect screw you to monsters when playing a mage. Its always up and allows escape 100% of the time.

I’d like to see more “builds” experiences. Trying something like this one, I find I have to be more careful early on than with some other builds.

Question: I summoned a mustached golem. My first experience with a pet. Kinda fun, but in Nethack there is a “swap places” key when the pet blocks your way. Is there such a key in DoD? Because I grabbed an egg, pet is behind me, now no way I see to get out!

EDIT: Pressing keys randomly to see if there was a swap places key, and discovered that F4 immediately quits your game with no save! Argh!!!

[Jarmo]

Moving into your pet switches places with it (at least with WASD). Clicking it attacks it. Your chosen settings affect these behaviours, though.

[JeffL]

Moving into your pet switches places with it (at least with WASD). Clicking it attacks it. Your chosen settings affect these behaviours, though.

Ah - I have played mouse only. Didn’t occur to me that keyboard would be different from mouse click in moving results.

[JeffL]

OK - I’m still a relative newb, been moving so only sporadic play.

Anyway, playing a mage type, and people here have talked about maxing out Alchemy for a killer build. But I don’t get yet the advantages of Alchemy. I’ve added points up to Mixologist, but I don’t see what it has gained me - no new formulas, or any other new capabilities that I can see? What is the big advantage of maxing the Alchemy skill?

Also - people talk about getting the fruited staff - can you only find those? I don’t see how I can make one.

[JordanP]

OK - I’m still a relative newb, been moving so only sporadic play.

Anyway, playing a mage type, and people here have talked about maxing out Alchemy for a killer build. But I don’t get yet the advantages of Alchemy. I’ve added points up to Mixologist, but I don’t see what it has gained me - no new formulas, or any other new capabilities that I can see? What is the big advantage of maxing the Alchemy skill?

Also - people talk about getting the fruited staff - can you only find those? I don’t see how I can make one.

You don’t need formulas to make things, just look it up in the wiki and punch it in. The fruitful staff is made using a Gnarled Staff, a plum, an apple, and a pear. It requires a maxed alchemy to craft.

Alchemy really shines when it’s maxed and you can make the best Mage equipment, but it also helps you along the way by letting you stretch your fruit and alcohol, and giving you earlier access to some neat potions and mid-level equipment. I’d recommend putting one or two points in your Mage’s spells so you can do some solid damage, and then just going straight for max alchemy.

[inactive_user]

Alchemy really shines when it’s maxed and you can make the best Mage equipment.

By which he means “reasonably decent mage equipment that you will replace by dungeon level 5 or so.”

[Jarmo]

Alchemy … also helps you along the way by letting you stretch your fruit and alcohol

To expand on this, on higher alchemy levels you extract more finished product from the same amount of ingredients. For example, one Rust and one Aqua Vitae get you one Potion of Healing on Alchemy level one, two potions on Alchemy level two and three potions on Alchemy level four.

The same goes for Distilling. On Alchemy level five you get three Hard Ciders from a single apple, three Applejacks from a single Hard Cider and two Aqua Vitaes from a single Applejack. So, one apple = 9 Applejacks or 18 Aqua Vitaes = 18 x 58 zorkmids = 1,044 zorkmids on Going Rogue. In practise this means near infinite money and mana regeneration potions with a Fruitful Staff (generates a fruit on every killing melee hit).

To make a Fruitful Staff you need Alchemy level five. It’s very worthwhile to get there as soon as you can.

To make the industrial level distilling more palatable, always utilise the recipies and the Autofill button. Choosing e.g. the Hard Cider recipe lets you click the Autofill and Distill buttons repeatedly without needing to move the accumulating Hard Ciders from the finished products window. This saves you a ton of mouse clicks and drag-and-drops.