Fascinating article. Good for them for making what they want and not caring about how commercially viable it is, I guess.
According to the article he gets 9 hours of sleep a night. That’s more than most people.
Pogo
3042
I think it’s pretentious as fuck for Toady to say that something is wrong with society in the context of Minecraft hitting it big and further bashing it.
A “distillation” of your own stuff, jackass? Really? How many opportunities have you missed to make DF even more commercially viable, while at the same time just ignoring the biggest issues of the game from your own fanbase? I see fans in this thread still complaining about military bugs that have been there since that last big update that added individually titled pubic hairs onto individually titled dwarven balls so that when that ball got cut off in battle the whole pubic community would be represented in the annals of history.
Toady needs to get fucking real, or figure out how life exists beyond the four walls of his momma’s house. That more people don’t make games like DF while living like dog shit and coding hours upon hours a day just to make less money in donations than they would with a salary isn’t a problem with society.
Game designers are often not well-adjusted individuals, news at 11.
Zepo1a
3044
So ToadyOne == Rain Man…well that explains everything about the UI :)
Pod
3045
I always suspected that Zach was mentally-challenged and Tarn looked after him, aside from making DF. I suspected this because all Zach did was write lame stories, yet his brother seemed to give him immense credit for his ‘contributions’ to the game, when its Toady that does all of the programming.
I now think that it’s probably the other way around, with Zach making sure Tarn eats, etc.
I think the article supports Tarn’s already crystal clear intent to not be “commercially viable” but instead design the game he wants to design. If that wasn’t the case, I would think he would take the $300,000.
As for the distillation comment, I don’t think he was suggesting MineCraft stole his ideas and simplified them. I also don’t think he is envious about its popularity. He’s just wishing more people were doing what he is doing as he thinks it is the “right way” to design and play. Just like I wish there were more interest and more kinds of games I like.
As he said in the article, he finds most current games win our attention by appealing to our compulsive side. He wants to contradict that design trend (though not via commercial domination, obviously) by offering something else - even if he ultimately offers it only to himself.
I appreciated the game and concept enough to subscribe to a monthly donation program for DF via PayPal, and because of that, it is the most expensive game I have ever “purchased”. If there was never another update, I would still consider it money well-spent. He has to be doing something right for a jaded 43-year-old dedicated gamer like me to feel there’s no other game quite like it.
Kael
3047
I don’t see a reason to be angry at anyone for the contents of the article. It is just one guys opinion. It’s an interesting glimpse into his mind, and the environment able to produce a game like DF. I’m glad the article is honest and open, even if I disagree with some of his points.
I do admire his passion and drive though. Some would say obsessive, and obsession has its good and bad points. At the end of the day I’m glad he’s doing what he enjoys, though for me its hard to imagine that insular a life being that enjoyable (so half of me hopes he takes a few weeks off to go to Vegas or hang out on a beach in Hawaii). But to each their own.
I agree, both with your comments and with he notion of designing things the ‘Toady way.’ Computers are number crunchers. They are best used as a tool for simulations and a game that applies a computer in this way is a much more pure computer game than ones that render endless cutscenes. Somewhere along the line gamers got hung up on the notion that computer games were just another form crossword puzzles or The Game of Life when there’s a history of computer games attempting to simulate alternate worlds. Now of course there’s more room for commercial appeal than Mr. Adams radical view, but if more designers applied more of those practices, that the design should concern itself with the simulation rather than the gamer’s journey, then we’d probably get less frustrated comments about games like Just Cause 2 getting in the way of itself.
The article says it’s the one unhappy thing toady talks about. Jeez, everyone’s allowed a bug bear, and a $10m game people continually compare to yours is a pretty reasonable thing to get a bit annoyed over!
Especially when the comparison is a stretch.
peterb
3051
I love dwarf fortress. I’ve donated over $100 for it. The UI is a complete fucking embarrassment (THREE separate interfaces for selecting areas? Seriously?) Turning a willingness to criticize the UI into some sort of fucked up loyalty test does Tarn absolutely no favors. It’s the shittiest aspect of the game, and those of us who criticize it are doing so, in large part, because we want the game to be better,
Pogo
3052
How in the world did you guys come to that really tame fanboy interpretation of his words?
He’s going to talk shit about current game design in the only article that has ever had any real-world clout, he’s going to bring up Minecraft in the same paragraph, and at the same time thump his chest about how he’s doing what he loves and it’s not about the money.
Get real. If you want to change what the big companies expect people want, you do it by getting commercial… LIKE MINECRAFT. That he doesn’t understand this is no real surprise, of course.
He wants to contradict that design trend (though not via commercial domination, obviously) by offering something else - even if he ultimately offers it only to himself.
Yeah, that’s great, but unfortunately most people need commercial success in such an isolated endeavor so that they don’t go crazy and shoot up a public place. It’s real noble for him to “contradict a design trend” at the same time as being a stubborn pretentious mouth breather that can’t even understand his own fan base.
I appreciated the game and concept enough to subscribe to a monthly donation program for DF via PayPal, and because of that, it is the most expensive game I have ever “purchased”.
I’m… sorry?
Same here JMJ. Well, it depends on your definition of successful I guess, but I’ve deliberately suicided/abandoned most of my games.
Still, the game obviously doesn’t mean for you to play like that. There’s a whole pile of mechanics designed specifically to support and reward careful job/task-juggling. That you & I mostly ignore them doesn’t mean they’re not there.
He’s going to talk shit about current game design in the only article that has ever had any real-world clout, he’s going to bring up Minecraft in the same paragraph, and at the same time thump his chest about how he’s doing what he loves and it’s not about the money.
It’s not clear he was the one that brought up Minecraft. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t the interviewer who did.
Get real. If you want to change what the big companies expect people want, you do it by getting commercial… LIKE MINECRAFT. That he doesn’t understand this is no real surprise, of course.
I don’t think he wants to change people nor does he think he can. You’re reading at least as much into his interview as the fanboys are.
Yeah, I guess you’re right.
Jesus dude, did he run over your cat while pissing on your favourite rug or something.
The “distillation” comment is probably related to Notch’s earlier comments about wanting to make Minecraft have similar features to Dwarf Fortress. There has also been a lot of people comparing Minecraft to DF. When really the games are completely different. Minecraft is a block placing simulator, while DF is a detailed world simulator designed for the player to create there own stories.Even The Elder Scrolls series has more in common with DF than Minecraft. I’d be upset as well if people compared my game, thats central mechanic is based on creating an interesting story for the player, to a Lego simulator that has a lifeless world, with very little story making abilities.
Perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own book and figure out how life exists beyond the four walls of your momma’s house. I think Tarn has done a bit more living than you have. Life isn’t black and white, but a spectrum of grey. There isn’t one correct way to live one’s life. What works for you is unlikely to work for the next person. Like it or not it’s the people living on the edge of society, like Tarn, that add a lot of richness to the tapestry of life. Pushing them into what is considered normal would lead to a pretty fucking boring tapestry.
tiohn
3057
Pogo always whips himself into a frothing rage when this thread gets bumped. I think he lost a knife fight to a dwarf banber once.
Quaro
3059
I wonder if he had taken that job at a game company, he might upgrade his personal development skills enough to really help with his own game. A temporarily distraction that might ultimately mean he could realize even more of his vision, just from a technical standpoint.
Also – anyone else surprised he turned down 300k just to license the name? That’d fund the game for 5+ years by itself – and he’s still be getting income from his community in that time, they’re hardcore enough to stick around.
What would he do with the money? His ambition is to eat, sleep, play with his cat and code. He really seems to have little interest in anything else!
