1741

And the internet hates you, Bob. However, as someone who is subscribed to his news feeds and has donated on several occasions, I feel comfortable with suggesting that he’s taking too long to get this release out.

1742

Oh god, it’s worse when you explicitly say it.

1743

YES BOB I FEEL ENTITLED TO A NEW RELEASE

I don’t, of course. I donated because I enjoyed playing the game. But you seem to believe that any mention of how long it’s taking for this version to come out is completely unacceptable. That’s just silly.

The fact that I’m a huge fan of his game with all its wackyness is apparently passing you by.

1744

I’m not surprised that you of all people think it’s unreasonable for those who paid for content to complain when they see nothing but Toady fucking around with meaningless bullshit and posting about it instead of releasing the next iteration of the game in a timely matter.

I’m sure Toady’s having a lot of fun doing whatever the fuck he wants and accepting donations for it. Great socially inbred developer, or slick con artist? A little bit of both.

1745

No one has paid for anything.

1746

There’s not a lot of things on the internet that will make me angry. But this qualifies. I’ve been on the other side of this kind of behaviour with Alice and Kev, and I would just like to say:

You are not being very nice, and I disapprove.

1747

That “fucking around” is why Dwarf Fortress is so awesome. It’s Toady’s way of testing things. As you can see from that very blurb that was posted, he fixed multiple bugs in the course of his little experiment. Fixing bugs and refining features seems like exactly what he should be doing before putting out a major release, no?

1748

Yeah that’s the brilliance of having a donation system, then you can just say “hey I didn’t promise anything!”

I don’t think you expected the type of publicity you got from that, and the popularity of your Sims 3 experiment exploded really quickly. I’m sorry you’re offended.

You should have quoted features instead of “fucking around”.

It’s great that criticizing his methods for game development brings a swarm of rabid defenders to his side to espouse the “when it’s done!” philosophy when it’s fairly obvious from this site and his own that people are having some of the same expectations of a timely release.

"But wait he never promised you anything!"

1749

You are being an enormous cock right now, you know.

Toady can say he didn’t promise anything, because he didn’t promise anything. He doesn’t owe you anything, and no amount of petulant whining on your part can change that.

1750

I must be confused. In what universe is it okay to expect a new version of a free game because you donated money to the developer even though donating money to the developer is in no way required?

1751

Toady is not a charity though, so I can see where if he’s soliciting for money, people are entitled to expectations.

1752

The only way this would get really bad is if he closed up shop one day or it took him 5 years to get a release out. Most people don’t think the situation has reached that point yet. There’s probably a sliding window at work.

1753

I guess in this universe it’s not OK to maybe make a comment about how long it’s taking to release something that you feel could probably have been done by now if the development was actually focused? I don’t see the problem with that. The original comment that BJB replied to wasn’t expecting anything, yet apparently JM broke some unwritten fucking law about Dwarf Fortress development that sends every one of its supporters into a hissy fit.

It’s pretty big, yeah.

Toady can say he didn’t promise anything, because he didn’t promise anything. He doesn’t owe you anything, and no amount of petulant whining on your part can change that.

Good thing I haven’t paid him anything, then, and referring to my posts as “whining” is ironic compared to the Dwarf Fortress Defender Squad.

1754

This is how development of DF has always worked, and likely how it always will be. It’s one of the things you learn to live with if you’re going to be a fan of Dwarf Fortress. Like someone already said, no amount of Pogo acting like a jackass on an internet forum is going to change that fact.

If Toady wants to take another year to release the new version, I’m fine with that. The version that’s already out works great and will hold me over until he’s ready to release the new one. I’d rather have the new version be completely awesome than crippled with bugs because the whiner’s choir forced him into releasing early.

1755

I see my donation as patronage to an artist. It’s not a consumer transaction.

1756

I fully admit to getting a sick, anti-social sense of pleasure from poking this thread.

I have an issue regarding your comment regarding awesomeness vs. crippling bugs, however. It seems that he is offering lots of things which aren’t fundamentally (although perhaps tangentially) increasing gameplay value, but are increasing complexity. As a curiosity, how many of the bugs that he has to fix from the current version are a result of an increased complexity from previous additions?

1757

I think increasingly ludicrous complexity is kind of the USP of Dwarf Fortress at this point. If you don’t like that part of the design then there is probably not much coming down the pipe that is going to excite you.

Toady isn’t exactly from the Charles school of ‘trim the fat’ game design.

1758

The stuff he’s talking about with the hospital, the grooming, etc, that’s the best part of DF for me. Having that much complexity in the world makes it easier to tell me own little stories in my head when I’m playing, which gives me the most enjoyment from the game. It’s also what makes reading those little development snippets so entertaining :)

1759

Anti-social is probably the right word. You have to realize that for people involved with the issue, it’s been done better a thousand times before you came along. Inflicting tedium on others works in P&R, console sales discussions, and AAA game threads, but it’s usually just a waste of time for niche interests beyond one or two posts.

1760

Dear Pogo…

If you sent him a donation wasn’t it for the release he’s already delivered and that you played? If so, do you have a right to be angry that he hasn’t released a new version?

Do you get Assassin’s Creed III for free just because you bought AC2?

Shouldn’t you be ashamed of yourself for impugning him and bothering us with it?

The answer to these questions are yes, no, no, and yes.

[EDIT]

P.S. I think you should start a website called “Noelvesallowed.com” to vent this frustration.