www.ratjoy.com

A number of us from Octopus Overlords and somethingawful.com are playing a browser game called Economies of Scale. The developer really enjoyed Capitalism and wanted to bring a same style game to the web. The game is free and is in beta now. You build factories, warehouses, stores, sell your stock on the stock market, take out loans, transfer money from yourself to your company, and buy and sell to other players on the B2B market. I haven’t gotten deeply into it but a lot of others are really enjoying it. Hopefully some of the OO’ers will see this and help out if folks have questions.

OT: People still use Octopus Overlords?

It still exists as a web site if that’s what you are asking. There’s a forum there. Check it out sometime.

I loved capitalism II. Looka like a reasonably good browser based version of it.

It’s still in beta and needs some balance and interface work, but it’s surprisingly fun. The dev has even been posting over on OO a bit and has been very receptive to our thoughts.

If anyone starts up and needs a good price on lemons, I’m your man.

I played this game a lot over the weekend (ok more like obsessively). For a beta product it is remarkably stable and quite functional. I really think capitalism is sort of a perfect topic for a real time browser based strategy game.

I think it is fun now,and even over the weekends I saw some improvements. So I imagine it will be even better when it gets out of beta.

It’s too bad it’s so badly named (ratjoy?!) and the home page is hideous and has no indication of the game within. There really is a good game in there, just have to get started.

I’m playing Economies of Scale, but I’m waiting for Martial Dynasties.

Ratjoy is an excellent name for anything, you stupid dick.

Kinda neat, looks like there’s far more factories than stores right now since most goods are available far cheaper than they’ll sell in a store. I started pumping more of my cash into the current company to buy up more inventory figuring that otherwise that cash is just sitting there. Kinda feel stupid about making 50000 oranges now, but maybe there will be buyers.

For those starting, avoid apples, oranges, and strawberries. Those markets look more saturated right now than the other starting choices.

If you sell on the store, and you can export them for more than you are selling them for, then the game will export them for you. So setting up a store seems wise.

I would like this game more if the creator would stop arbitrarily giving more and more cash to players. It ruins the achievement of growing your own business.

I agree first a $3 million and the $10 million gifts while they seem nice really hurt the balance of the game and the achievement.

Hopefully once we are finished with the “Beta”, they will have a new start for everyone with no gimmes.

I did like that the developer gave me a bonus (of influence) for a finding a bug.

Actually, with the economic model he has in place there’s not much achievement in building a business. On items I produce and sell in my own stores, rather than the b2b market, I sell with margins from 2000-5000% and can’t keep my inventory stocked between logins. Under those conditions, growth is rather an inevitability regardless of how much money the dev gives to players as gifts.

The new supply and demand code Scott added recently changed things around quite a bit. You can still reliably eek out a profit on about anything, but you can make a ton more money on items where demand hasn’t been met yet. There’s quite a few industries out there still where there’s a lot of demand for goods and profits are much higher there.

Eh… actually, even the demand met markets still produce stupid high profits. Just as an example, post-last night’s update a production run of 200k q0 cherries gets me a unit cost of $0.29, and I sell 1800/hr via the farmer’s market pricing them at $3/unit. Cherries have a worldwide demand met at 114%. My overhead costs (which entered the game last night) are about 3 ticks of store revenue.

I suppose if you want to absolutely maximize your net income there is a challenge, but building a company in and of itself isn’t very hard. I think I’ll probably get bored sometime in the next couple days unless there’s a drastic overhaul, or some reason to worry about maximizing income versus just generating enough to build and expand at random.

If you say so. Just more profit for me in the high demand markets where the real money is. :)

I didn’t realize how many products and production chains there were before just diving into limes. I’ll go ahead and keep selling limes at a store but I’m moving into a high demand market right now and it’s taking some time to setup.

It’s pretty impressive how many options there are for what you want to do. I imagine someone could just dive right in and use their starting loan to buy stocks, or just head straight into buying products on the market and selling in a store if they see a price opportunity.

The sorting of the B2B marketplace is sort of annoying if you’re trying to find a specific good to buy.

I agree it is very easy to make money. However after reading the forums I understand this is by design. Basically the developer wants to make sure the players have enough money to be able to build factories and explore many aspects of the game quickly.

Long term I think the goal is to allow you to double in size each week. So you can go from initial phase to 1 billion in about 2 months. Right now you can do it faster. We are already seeing some markets like fruit, most crops and basic materials, water and electricity become very competitive. For instance I have 10 meter logging camp it cost me $43 to make a log, meanwhile you can buy logs in the b2b market for $44. Needless say this isn’t a good business to be in.

That being said it certainly easy to find products that cost <$1 to make that you can sell for $50-$100. Although they typically require multiple steps and the game doesn’t factor in labor cost yet.

I continue to be impressed by this game and urge anybody who has any interest in Sim or tycoon games (maybe not including The Sims perhaps ) to check it out.

I collect business game the way Brian Rubin collects space games,and I can say this is one of the best I’ve seen ever. The game that is was based on, Capitalism is widely considered the best ever and I think EOS is probably already better and certainly improving rapidly.

EOS improves on Capitalism in two important ways. The sheer number of factories and the complicated supply chains made the Capitalism really overwhelming after a while. EOS eliminates having to figure out which diary farm, your ice cream factory needs to get milk from, by sticking all production into a central warehouse. (Similar to most other browser strategy games.) This eliminate much of Capitalism’s micromanagement.
The bigger improvement is replacing the pretty brain dead AI with real humans who create competitive markets.

However, EOS is not at all dumbed down like most browser strategy games. As Pogo said there are many different ways of operating a business. Specializing in a few retail product, simply opening a stores, or getting into the utility business by selling water and electricity.

Even relatively simple items like a stuffed toy require multiple steps and multiple factories.

Mine: Minerals, Coal
Power Plant: Electricity
Well: Water, Petroleum
Plantation: Cotton
PetroChemical: Chemicals, Polyester, Polyester Thread
Toy Factory: Stuffed Animal

This is 6 factories to make it and 4 R&D facilities to improve the stuffed Panda bear.
Something like a business jet, or la aptop requires about twice as many facilities.
Since you are limited to ~10 types of factories, ~6 types of R&D factory and Retail stores, you have to pick and choose what you want to specialize in.

So for instance if you are making toys and sporting good products, you probably don’t want to have a plantation to grow cotton. This probably works until you run out of cotton and nobody is selling cotton, or the price is ridiculously high. So you constantly have to make the decision that real business make how much inventory should I keep on hand. Too much and all of my capital is tied up in inventory, too little and I risk have may business jet factory shut down, because I missing a $100 integrated circuit chip.

The other thing I like is that unlike most browser strategy games you don’t have to micromanage it (although I it does help.) The problem with the war like games like Evony, Travian etc. Is if you happen to be asleep or at work, when the big attack hits and you lose your army or your capital it is pretty much game over. With a business game if you don’t log in for a day, your stores run out of inventory, and your factories shut down. It is expensive but no reason to abandon the game.

The developer does have a challenge in keeping guys like tfernado challenged, cause the game is just about a making money. The quest in the game aren’t particularly compelling.

On the other hand Zynga is worth billions, because it convinced millions of people to grow crops, and buy virtual tractors. :) and this game is way way more interesting.