At this point I almost take a bad review from Tom as a sign that a game is outstanding. This is the same man who gave low scores to Deus Ex (original) and Red Dead Redemption…
For all Bethesda’s ambition, why haven’t they gotten better at the basics of moment-to-moment gameplay? … still asked you to accept such fundamental compromises as this sloppy melee system, overbearing inventory management, and brittle AI scripting?
It’s more accurate to say they have gotten better. They’re just making baby steps. Like I said weeks ago, it makes me excited for the next game. It doesn’t help this one, and perhaps Bethesda will always be a decade behind the curve on certain things. But I was genuinely surprised at the progress they made on the moment-to-moment gameplay: things like the crunchiness of archery or the variety of magic spells.
Of course I’d like them to do even better on melee and the interface. I just don’t think Tom’s review paints the best picture of the state of this series. At least he pointed out what a leap they made from Oblivion’s world and dungeons.
Just read Toms review, and for me it’s 100% on the money. I’ve always had the same likes and dislikes for all of their games, this one is no different. I do think that the longer time goes on, the more inexcusable their horrible combat becomes. This game, along with all of their others, feels like combat from a game made in the 90s. It’s so far behind the industry that for me personally, it’s game breaking.
Having a pretty world to look at and explore is awesome, and holds my attention for some time, but when the more or less core mechanic of the game is this bad, it just ruins the overall exp for me. If you’re going to make a game where 95% of the content is “go kill these things and bring me the foozle”, you better make sure that killing things is well done, it’s not in this game.
ONE of these days, someone will make a game like this, that has awesome combat, that will surely be my game of all time.
Is it weird that I think the combat is really good?
kerzain
4965
No, it isn’t weird. It’s not as fun as Mount and Blade or anything, but I find it very fun – and much better than I expected from a Bethesda title.
I like the combat, although the general stupidity of enemy AI can get tiring (so far mages have provided the most interesting opponents), and sometimes combat devolves into a game of ‘kite the baddie till my mana regens’ and I find myself running around with “Yakety Sax” playing in my head.
But overall, enjoying it. One time I was in an epic duel with some Forsworn mage or something, and this dude leaps down on me from above, and I blast him into the air with lightning. Moments like that buy this game a lot of goodwill in my eyes.
kerzain
4967
Ice mages and Forsworn Briarhearts are my bane (psycho dual-wielders).
On the other hand, “go” is well done.
“Things” are also pretty good this time. For example, the draugr are so far beyond the infuriating skeletons in Oblivion that it’s dishonest to lump the two games together. Same with enemy mages, some of the wild animals, the flame atronach, minibosses, etc.
I agree not every aspect of combat is that great. Some of it is good enough though.
Sebmojo
4969
It’s not at all a bad review - I think he nails why it’s so extraordinary, and important. Nicely written, too, I love ‘narrative loom’. I think the 7 is just a kind of impatience at the little ways they missed the mark. But take out the mark (I’d give it a 9 personally, warts and all) and there’s nowt I’d disagree with.
Plus the inevitable whiff of trolling, ofc. But less so than usual.
RepoMan
4970
I think Tom’s coming off of Saints Row 3, which has very polished combat and an open world with shitloads to do. He is dinging Bethesda for not keeping up. That is perfectly reasonable.
Nope I think combat is good, much improved over Oblivion.
Those dual wielding Briarhearts are pretty crazy for skilling up block (and I assume armor skills). I was chasing a level to get a certain perk, but had maxed out my primarily used skills, so pulled out a shield in a forsworn area. One of those briarhearts must have shot it up 5 points in 30 seconds to a minute.
Combat with sword and board is kinda fun. Power attack left or right (yes, there are cool directional power arracks!) to reposition yourself, shield bash their channeled spells or incoming power attacks and mess with weapon and potion effects. I like it. There is a LOT of combat to get through in this game, I don’t want to have to over think each encounter.
Forgive me for thinking out loud: I can’t help but wonder if game systems to encourage realistic NPC reactions could be better built using some taxonomical system (talking out my arse here). Eg, define dozens of groups/identities: human, woman, young, old, child, rich, poor, guild membership. Then specify dozens of player actions: kill, rob, abuse, be nice to, and so on, and then on your matrix plan out responses to actions and group heirarchies. Or something.
One would hope you could make NPCs seem more lifelike without resorting to dozens of repetitive individual scripts for each one covering all possible eventualities from player action. Hmmm.
“Press E to kick Urchin”
“Are you sorry Y/N”
“Nearby Guildmaster offers you a job”
Patch due Weds. Claims to fix the 360 installed texture bug, the PS3 savegame size bug, and er, let PC users close menus with the escape key :)
Patch due Weds. Claims to fix the 360 installed texture bug, the PS3 savegame size bug, and er, let PC users close menus with the escape key :)
Skipper
4978
Burning vacation up at the end of the year + single. Normally I do NOT have this much gaming time, trust me.
Arbit
4979
Tom sound’s like he’s just tired of Bethesda RPGs. I think if you’re not already in love with the core Elder Scrolls concept (explore huge fantasy world and gather treasure and everything else is very secondary) then the almost-acceptableness of the combat and the finally-not-insaneness of the leveling system are not going to make you swoon.
RepoMan
4980
No, no, I really don’t think that’s it. I think Tom is simply ranking the game as 50% world, 50% moment-to-moment gameplay. And let’s face it, he’s right, the combat really is underwhelming compared to most action / console titles. We all also agree that the favorite / hotkey system is seriously lacking. So he’s giving it 5 out of 5 for world, but 2 out of 5 for combat and interface. That’s fair enough.
The rest of us, I think, are giving it like 7 out of 5 for world, and 3 out of 5 for gameplay / interface, resulting in our 10s :-)
The point is that Bethesda is world class now, and there is really nothing preventing them from learning from all other titles on the market. I mean, imagine how much more awesome Skyrim would be if it had, oh, say, Arkham City’s combat system modified for Skyrim’s rules. The only thing hindering this is Bethesda’s priorities; they are certainly capable of hiring engineers that could make this happen. And if they actually go and do it for ES6, I bet even Tom would give that game a 10, and I might never play anything else again.
