5041

It’s all been done before, dunno why Bethesda continues to be so lazy and uninspired.

Why does it offend you to hear people talk about how a good game could be better?

5042

I’m not so sure they’re the direct cause of the shattered experience or just what someone grasps at when he’s not having fun (heh). Sometimes I don’t get swept away by a game like other people do. It’s tempting to find fault to justify my opinion, but really the problem is that it didn’t quite work for me personally. Maybe what’s brittle is our own investment in a game.

5043

Very little of the criticism is couched in the conceit that the game is good to begin with. Sure, I have a wishlist of improvements I’d like to see, either in the expansions or the sequel, but comments along the lines of “Dark Souls’ combat was SO much better!” are just pointless.

5044

I’ve posted on the front page before, but part of the reason I brought the review up here is that (as we’ve seen) it generates a lot more interesting discussion on the message board then it ever will in the average of four or five posts the front page articles get. If Tom wants to interact with the gaming community, he needs to do that here. At some level I was hoping he might actually respond, pie in the sky dream as that may be at this point.

I’m playing as a dual wielding melee character and while I have also had moments of frustration with the combat, I don’t see that as a failure of the game as much as a trade-off of the choices I’ve made. The weakness of a melee character is that you are subject to distance attacks and have to be smart about how you approach mages and archers. And melee opponents aren’t going to just stand nearby until you pummel them to death. So you have to look at all the tools at your disposal, not just think in terms of closing and delivering endless killing blows.

It depends a lot on what you want to compare Skyrim to and I think part of Tom’s problem is that he isn’t comparing Skyrim to other RPGs, he’s comparing it to other open world games. Which is fine up to a point. But the technical brilliance of SR3 or JC2 means nothing to me if I want to play in a fantasy setting, and right now Skyrim is the top of that game type.

5045

Skyrim is a fantastic game, but one that could certainly benefit from improvements (unlike Oblivion, which was an unforgivably shitty game that needed a huge array of mods to get it anywhere near fun). But, it’s the idea some folks have that the game is broken as it sits, when compared to other games that have a more direct focus, and provide a better gaming experience, for certain individual gameplay elements, makes me die/laugh/cringe/fart a little inside.

5046

On top of that, SR3 is all about the ridiculous stuff it lets you do. It’s not all that technically impressive, and is in fact a much shallower game than Skyrim in terms of open world gameplay opportunities that aren’t just minigames that really don’t take much advantage of the open world aspect. I would also argue that Skyrim as a location is a far more believable and complete world than the fairly nondescript city of Steelport. One of my major criticisms of SR3 (and it’s one of my top 5 games of 2011, so I don’t actually have that many) is that Stilwater was a far better designed location.

5047

Why? If the melee combat is weak compared to every other melee game out there and you are not having fun playing a melee warrior, are you just supposed to shut that part of your brain off and think “But I can be a blacksmith and cast spells and own a house!!! Who cares that I am not having fun!!!”

It’s just a matter of how much you are willing to sacrifice for an open world and expansive skill system. That will vary from person to person.

5048

Do I think everybody needs to enjoy Skyrim? No. However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who don’t enjoy the game to recognize what a great game it is, even if they don’t particularly care for it. This is how I justify my dislike of Beatles music, while simultaneously respecting the band for their skill, craftsmanship and the mark they left in history. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it sucks, and the same goes for gamers who don’t like Skyrim.

There are bands out there putting out music I find much more to my tastes, and bands I would consider comprised of much better performers, but that doesn’t detract from the quality of a Beatles song, nor does it affect my enjoyment/dislike of it.

In this case, I think Skyrim is worthy of respect (even by gamers who don’t find that it appeals to their personal taste in games), and has earned all the praise it’s receiving.

5049

This is a brilliant comment.

5050

unlike Oblivion, which was an unforgivably shitty game that needed a huge array of mods to get it anywhere near fun

I still don’t get this at all. I can see “Oblivion was fair, Skyrim is good” or “Oblivion was good, Skyrim is great” but “Oblivion was unforgivably shitty, Skyrim is FANTASTIC” will never compute to me. The latter is very obviously an iteration of the former and deeply resembles it in myriad ways. Am I really the only person around here (besides Desslock) who actually liked vanilla Oblivion?

5051

Nah. I liked it. A lot of people liked it. It just wasn’t anywhere near as good as Skyrim (or Morrowind, in most ways).

5052

I loved the hell out of Oblivion, but I think a lot of that was not playing until mods really cleaned out some of the stupid. However, even without mods I think I would have had a blast. Even if you don’t like 80% of that game, there’s still dozens of hours of amazing content in the 20%.

Skyrim is just so very much better out of the box. Sure, there are things I think could use improvement, but I consider it a triumph.

5053

If Skyrim follows the route of Morrowind and Oblivion, imagine the game we will have in one year, with it being as good as it is now! Or in two years, and three years?! I can’t wait!

5054

I loved it. Played it for over 60 hours on the 360 and then over 100 hours on PC all vanilla unmodded.

I played an additional hundred hours on PC with a bunch of silly mods, but by then I wasn’t interested in doing quests or developing a character. I was actively breaking the game to do wacky sandbox stuff.

5055

This is a fair point - the critical consensus on Oblivion’s rubbishness formed some time after its release. Around release this forum is full of people blissing out over the joys of shattering skeletons with maces and finding paintings to adventure in.

5056

I agree with Gordon Cameron’s point. In the end Skyrim is a game very close to Oblivion, in lots of areas. It’s better overall, of course. But if you hate one, it would be pretty weird to love the other.

5057

We had the Oblivion vs. Skyrim discussion closer to release. I think my take was that the surprising amount of love and care in each individual part added up to something greater.

I’m not sure what it will look like beyond textures and interface. It seemed like most Oblivion mods had to worry about overhauling broken systems like leveling. Some attempted to create interesting mechanics out of thin air for melee and magic. They also had to work on faces and weather.

Most of that is better now. It’ll be interesting to see where they take the game since those things aren’t quite so critical here. Of course they can always enhance or rebalance.

5058

Nah, it isn’t weird.

5059

Depends on why you hated Oblivion. In terms of overall structure they’re quite similar, but if your chief complaint about Oblivion was the combat, say, or the general blandness of the world, Skyrim is light years ahead and I could absolutely see loving it despite having hated Oblivion.

5060

I don’t see the combat that much better. In fact, it’s one of the main flaws of Skyrim, for me, is the mediocre combat. It needs more depth, and it needs more input from the player’s own skills.

From my foggy memories, it’s only slightly better than Oblivion’s.

I understand it can’t be Dark Souls but for a game with so much combat (let’s be honest, 70% of the game is killing things) they need to improve it a bit more.