King’s Bounty/Armored Princess allows move and then shoot, iirc. That may be what is causing the HoMM confusion.
Best thread on Elemental forums
http://forums.elementalgame.com/392040
ZOOPHILIA! Bestiality!
And game journalists attack The Witcher! ha!
edit: ohh they are going to remove it. I want to marry a dragon.
Yeah, I think that’s what I’m thinking of. Basically I’d do my best to alpha strike down big/weak stacks even if it meant giving up attacks and moves with guys because the threat of a stack of 200+ low-level monsters is far greater than the threat of a stack of 40, and that alpha strike capability is crucial, especially on monsters that have a weak but heavily stacked ranged attack themselves.
KevinC
2824
Why would they remove something as awesome as a dragon-grandchild riding a horse? Why???
The post you’re quoting – and that Ben replied to as if it was directed to him --wasn’t a reply to Ben. It was a reply to Naeblis suggesting specific alternative ways for how things should work when we still don’t even know how they’re supposed to work, or whether they’re even working correctly.
Before we re-design Elemental, the bigger issue is that we don’t even know what’s going on, and the game itself is no help. But once we figure that stuff out, I’m sure there are plenty of interesting discussions to be had about how we would have done if we were game developers.
-Tom
Kalle
2826
And the “actual” day 0 patch won’t be coming out on day 0.
Do we have an ETA on this actual not-day-0 patch?
KevinC
2827
Huh? They’re uploading it now, they said it’d be a couple hours or so.
OK, it seems I get this fog of war bug every time I reload a save from in game, it does not correct until I reboot.
I see only fog, can’t zoom in or out with mousewheel, can’t center on unit, minimap box won’t move either.
Also had situation where in combat all I saw was fog…
Yeah, fair enough. I just wanted to be clear about where we were drawing the line on that, because it sounded like you were saying that the only legitimate problem with that mechanic was that the game did not clearly explain it, and that suggesting that the game should have made a different design choice was veering into armchair designer territory. If so, then I disagree on both counts.
I’d agree that offering specific alternative design solutions is definitely veering into armchair designer territory, though.
But isn’t that exactly the kind of user feedback that Stardock prides itself on listening to, the kind of stuff that people say has created such a loyal customer base? They already took out the random terrain modifiers, and I won’t be surprised if within the month the action point issue is addressed. They’ve made sweeping changes to game systems far less malleable in just the past few months leading up to this release. Listening to their player-base is the one thing we can all agree Stardock is great at.
But I actually think it’s kind of a problem. Listening to the customer is wise, and should always be a component of product design, but I think Stardock may go too far in that direction. You need to have a clear idea of what you’re trying to accomplish and then look to your customers to refine that idea. But there’s no discernible creative vision here, no design goals beyond “Let’s make not-MoM.” As I strive to get a grasp on Elemental (which is hard because the latest patch makes my game crash every few turns), it feels like an accumulation of mechanics with little or no coherence; a host of subsystems in desperate need of an organizing principle.
What the game ends up feeling like to me is a rudderless ship, which customers are now expected to climb on board and row. I realize that I may be in the minority with that feeling, and I will give the game another chance once it’s in better shape, but right now I’m going to do exactly what Brad asked me to do: stop buying Stardock games. I’ve finally figured out that their approach to game design is completely a odds with what I want out of a game.
I’m really curious (as someone who doesn’t have Elemental): Is the way action points behave an issue? Leaving aside the issue of it not being obvious at first how they work, of course.
I’ve been trying to think through the implications, and I’m undecided between “inferior to move+one action” and “different, but okay”.
KiloOhm
2832
I noticed this last night playing and was wondering if having more APs means higher accuracy or possibly damage. Didn’t really test it but it’s possible the number of APs left influences how well your spells work.
KiloOhm
2833
The real “day 0” patch is supposed to be coming this evening (no specific time given). The 1.01 available now has SOME of what was going to be in day 0 but a lot of it was not included yet.
It’s been a pretty botched launch so far but they are recovering quickly. I’m sure Brad is regretting putting out the game early because of the broken street dates, all it’s caused is confusion and bad reviews.
Sepiche
2834
I think it’s one of many minor balance issues they’ll probably look at over the next few months, but it’s not too big a deal in it’s current form IMHO.
I haven’t followed the ensuing thread closely enough, but do we even know what the frickin’ mechanic is yet? Is is that casting spells costs three action points, or whatever the hero has left up to three?
I’ve been mostly ignoring magic in my two main games, which have each ground to a halt for varying reasons, so the spell casting isn’t something I’ve paid much attention to. But it’s really galling that something so fundamental isn’t explained. And, like you said, the AP system is just the beginning. I’m really really angry at Elemental precisely because I want to play it, and it can’t be arsed to meet me half way.
-Tom
Except that the version out there is more advanced than the shipping version in the box. And Brad swore that that version would be perfectly fine even if you could never update it.
It’s not an early release if it’s more advanced than the Gold Master.
It really galls me when game makers say this or something close to it.
I didn’t just start buying PC games. I know without a shadow of a doubt that your PC strategy game will absolutely need a patch or two to get to a playable state. Don’t tell me that your game will be just fine without a patch. It’s bull.
I know that no one wants to say “our game is going to really rock after a few patches” but stop lying about it.
KiloOhm
2839
Fair point, I guess I expect that everyone will update this game since casual gamers probably will have never heard of it. Hell my friends mostly have never heard of it. It’s not like Madden or something.
Cubit
2840
