Yeah. I’m glad they are making the effort to address things like the wonky Action Point system, but I have my doubts as to whether a last minute revamp of a system that has worked the way it has worked throughout the beta–as well as changes to AP costs for so many actions–can possibly result in a balanced combat system. It didn’t seem particularly balanced before, though, so perhaps it can only get better from here?
Gotta feel a bit sorry for Brad that his rash QT3 one liner is almost destined to become a headline to mini news items across the web, shorn entirely of the somewhat hostile context of parts of this thread, under which it was generated.
On the other hand, from all the reports I’m reading here and everywhere else it sounds like Elemental isn’t quite ready for regular playtime quite yet either. I really enjoy the genre though so I wish the game all the best and hopefully will pick it up when there is some positive word of mouth.
I agree that quote(from Brad) is just going to be buzzed around all the time, as if it really has more meaning than it was made in. It’s a shame, Brad is obviously keen to protect his love(Elemental) and it getting an hour one roasting due to some still present bugs and issues just struck too close to home it seems?
Chin up Brad - all the early noise will be forgotten by most people when this game becomes what it can be. Still people with axe’s to grind will keep grinding, can you hear them? Basically keep at it and you(and Stardock) will be vindicated.
I’m saying this as a ‘not Stardock fanboy’(I’ve posted constructive criticism about Impulse Anywhere and issues around getting a fully patched version of GalCiv2 in the impulse forums), and more a fellow ‘perfectionist’ in an imperfect world.
JM1
2885
It’s better than it was, but it still feels like a beta. Sorry.
Of course the game launched in a unfinished state.
Campaign with one scenario anyone? Every GalCiv 2 game and expansion had a bigger campaign, even if they were also 4X games.
Game released without any multiplayer? It had to be postponed by one week.
4X game without “true” random maps?
0-day patches that break essential stuff like archers (fixed now, yes) or change important things like the pace of battles in one day?
Retired custom factions because of the bugs?
Oversights everywhere, from documentation, ui, items with wonky stats or stuff like no limit in items (you can put 20 magic rings on the same unit), or quests that give you a too much powerful unit at the beginning of the game.
AI still underwhelming in comparison with GC2.
I trust in Stardock to patch the game, but that doens’t change the fact that it was clearly unfinished.
Stardock has said that they are going to improve core parts of the game like quests and spells and abilities post-release. I suppose some people will read that like something positive, thinking “they are going to improve a good game into a even better game! yay!”, i think more in as a confirmation of how they released a game with some really sad and underwhelming areas, and they know it, that’s why they have to improve them later into something a bit more aceptable.
Hell, the fact that dragons* can’t fly in the game, in the tactical battles or in the general map, is just sad.
*: i remember an very old post/journal of Brad saying how dragons are important in Elemental world, they were the other intelligent creature apart from men, and they were going to be very rare, but spectacular. In the end they even can’t fly.
There’s no way to vindicate Brad releasing Elemental too soon. That vindication is far more likely to take the form of reduced pre-orders for Stardock’s next title.
True, it IS crazy how the games industry does business these days, and sad also. I just wait at least 3 months after initial release for all games now.
Dejin
2889
Just find another nice addition to the game from the day-0 patch. There is now an experience bar shown on the toolbar. This shows the current units level and how far it has gone towards reaching the next level.
I agree with a lot of what you said - it was and to a more limited extent is still unfinished. However, here’s what was said in the June FAQabout flying:
[/li]
I said “early beta,” and just to clarify this once and for all, what I meant was that the game plays like a beta that is not a final beta, where all the systems are in place and the design is feature-locked and you are down to testing and tweaking play balance, and chasing bugs. And I still think that. They are testing and tweaking balance, and they are chasing bugs, but they are also making some pretty significant design changes, such as revamping the whole combat system, right here on day one. And they are dropping those changes into the game in an obviously untested state. The new system is broken right out of the gate, and even if they fix that with the next quick patch, I can’t imagine that it will be even remotely balanced. I’m confident that they will tune it until it works based on testing and user feedback, but the fact remains: we’re all betatesting this stuff.
I also said that the GUI feels like a work in progress, and it clearly is, because again: they keep making significant changes to it.
Mind you, I’m glad that they are working on addressing the game’s issues, but these are not tasks that one typically does with a game that is in final testing, let alone one that just hit store shelves.
Yeah. Example: Bohemia has acquired a bad reputation with Arma 2, because it was very buggy and needed a nasa computer. 7 official patches, a number of beta patches, and an expansion later, the situation is much better, they did a good post-release support. But the damage to their reputation is done, in fact i think the expansion didn’t sell as well as they wanted. They are trying to win more money with DLC now, but i think they are going to limit themselves in their existing niche, instead of trying to make that niche bigger doing a game with a better initial state.
One thing is doing a good support in patches, and another to release a solid game. One thing doesn’t cover the other. Just because you are going to do updates doesn’t mean is admissible to release a game in bad state.
Well this seems a pretty sad state of affairs.
I now feel I’ve played this game enough to start making some judgements about it. Here’s my two cents worth so far:
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In about 10-12 hours of play I’ve had one (1) crash to desktop. Now this is fairly unhelpful for people like Tom Francis who are having CTD every ten minutes, but it does suggest that these issues are somewhat system configuration dependent. Stuff like this is a reality of Windows gaming, there’s just so many different configurations out there that even a huge company like EA can’t test them all. Hopefully these issues were fixed in the last patch or will be very soon.
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I’ve experience two minor bugs so far. That’s it. Two bugs. People claiming that this game is buggy or ‘beta’ quality (subjectivity ahoy!) seem way off base to me. That said, the breaking of tactical combat actions in yesteday’s patch is unfortunate.
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Mostly I’m coming round to Tom Chick’s opinion on the way this game provides information to the player, last nights patch improved the situation a lot, but Elemental still loves to hide things from you.
I don’t think this game is in a bad state at all. With a few, mostly simple, tweaks it could be fixed. The suggestion that this game is months away from being ready for release is crazy, it’s maybe two weeks early at most.
It sucks that Brad’s line got quoted out into the wild, but it’s hard for me to disagree with the sentiment of the article. Elemental did launch in an unfinished state. Playing it still feels pretty rough.
I have confidence that Elemental will eventually get to a really good state, but this launch was almost early MMO worthy.
Cubit
2895
the hell? Stardock released an incomplete, unfinished game. They deserve all the criticism they are getting.
Fellow “perfectionist”? That is rich.
Also, Qt3 is a public forum and Brad knows this. The fact that he neither apologized or edited his post means that it wasn’t some “rash one liner”, but what he truly feels.
DeepT
2896
I started a game on a large map. After founding my first city I started to explore. I have not found any food anywhere outside of my starting city. I researched the adventuring stuff and now my starting city has 4 farms, but there are still no farms anywhere else.
Do I need fertile ground for a 2nd city because there are resources out there I want do not have anywhere around. In other words, can the food from my main city feed my other cities?
DeepT: It can if you have a surplus. The food-prodcing city will take the food that it needs from its supply first, but anything left over after that can be used by other cities.
KevinC
2898
Deept, food like all resources is shared.
I think the statement of “this is like a beta” doesn’t refer to just the number of cold, hard bugs. It’s the feeling of being a beta. In a videogame, beta status doesn’t mean only to have bugs, but also is the final phase where developers and testers have to play a lot and fine tune the UI, the AI, the pace, the balance of the game, the difficulty scale, and in general be sure that all the parts of the game are fun. And the game shouldn’t go out of “beta status” until all that is well solved.
At least in a perfect world.
You have four farms in your empire? Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever had more than two.
Resources are shared between all cities in your empire. And specialising cities is the most effective way to develop. Having four fertile land on one city is a brilliant advantage, not a disadvantage.
