Doesn’t mean we can’t criticize what he says. If he starts banning people for that then you really do know what kind of forum it is.
— Alan
Tom actually came out heavier against PC Gamer initially as Tom knows the PCG guy (sorry I’m forgetting names) is a member of the community here and thinks he should know better. I’m paraphrasing there, don’t hold Tom to exactly my words.
Kieron (from RPS) came in to defend Quinns–the RPS guy who caught Tom’s flak (fuck flak?)–at least on the grounds that if anyone at RPS deserves Tom’s scorn it’s the editorial staff, so Tom obliged.
I didn’t get the impression that Tom singled out RPS, Kieron just engaged him on it and it kinda got into who-condescended-to-who-first from there.
I really like both of Tom and Kieron, so it bums me out to see them arguing, but in a weird way I sort of like how it’s played out so far. Nobody’s ceding any ground and the responses from both Tom and Kieron are relatively “heated” compared to their normal tone around here, but they’re adults, and so far that’s all that’s come of it. I think it’s their right to be mad, but nobody’s flaming out or getting banned yet.
I hope I’m not jinxing it mid-fight, maybe Kieron’s just gone to bed and will be back to call Tom names in the morning, or maybe Tom’s just busy researching imperial profanity for his next response, but for now, I’m glad that there’s room for “reasonable” passionate disputes.
steve
3263
Well, yes and no. They didn’t have a copy of the game to verify its alleged issues, nor did they talk directly to anyone. They’re reporting what others are reporting, not digging out a big story.
That’s a fair point. AND, they specified that in the article I believe.
You know what’s interesting about that? I’ve read every single post in this thread and I don’t see where RPS missed the mark on their article at all. Actually, they left out other damning statements made by Brad.
If we are talking context, I think the fact that Brad repeated his sentiment about not buying his games at least one other time, but worse than that was he insisted nothing was appreciably wrong with Elemental. Brad assembled a Voltron of bad faith and although the head was him telling Sones to go pound sand, the body of it to me was his Baghdad Brad impression over the game’s debilitated state. And I don’t see what is so reprehensible about reacting to that. He’s Tom’s friend and he worked for years on the game? Man, everybody is somebody’s friend and they sometimes become part of projects that don’t turn out well.
I am all for showing game developers who post here more than a modicum of respect, but it is not too much to ask for the same in return, where it really matters and to whom it really matters. You can’t ask people to offer criticism on your game and then react in such an egregiously offensive manner.
And that apology was great until about 1/2 of the way through when Brad blamed it on DRM, or lack thereof, and retailers, or whatever. Nice. I don’t recall him saying anything about that in this thread. Maybe I missed it. And he said that Elemental Day 1 would be just fine too. Well, is it? My sources say no. It’s better but still broken, still in a state that should be considered unfit for release. I doubt anyone here playing it who isn’t an imbecile would disagree.
lokiju
3266
This may be a public forum, but it’s also one of the few places gamers, developers, and journalists gather to talk games. Running to blog some gossip when you’re a member of this community just feels like shitting where you eat.
Brad is an ass? Tom is close to an ass? What total bullshit. You are either trolling or so selectively reading its sad. This thread is like kryptonite to thoughtfulness. Let me give you a better numerical list, without the reductio ad absurdum:
- A game is coming out in the same vein as a older much-beloved one.
- Beta and stuff; game gets close to release.
- People have legitimate concerns; Brad posts a bunch, not being an ass.
- People with P&R axes to grind come into this thread and troll the shit out of it without having played a single minute of gameplay time.
- Tom tries to stop trolling; thread has already began feeding frenzy death spiral.
- Brad stays up too late trying to polish the spin since they can’t polish the game and makes an ill-considered remark to someone he knows personally.
- Someone takes said remark and publishes it in a column about the game and a manifesto without context of trolling, personal relationship, etc.
- Tom gets pissed off his forum is used for out-of-context bait.
- Brad apologizes and tries put his commend in perspective.
- Kieron comes in and tries to take heat for byline guy; pisses Tom off even more. Snark ensues.
- Your crappy forum fellatio troll list.
This thread should be locked and a new one started. It’s worse than dead, Jim; it’s contagious and spreading.
That was not was reported on PCG or RPS.
This is a terrible summary of this thread.
Mrenda
3270
I think what everyone is ignoring is that Brad is an asshole. (although arctangent came close in calling him an ass.) Yes, he may have said something in anger, and it may have been specifically directed at someone else, but he made no bones about who could read his shitty little opinion, and the contempt he holds for people who had concerns for something he was peddling. That to me is newsworthy. If Bill Gates said “Vista haters can fuck off to Apple” at a “PCs RULE!” party, you can be damn sure it’d be reported and you can be damn sure people would want it to be reported.
And what about the context? People were angry at him for providing a broken game for their $50. I’ve read the thread a couple of times and that is what the context is. People were sniping at him and the game, but he was holding his official line. And how can we tell that? Because he refused to accept the state of the game, which is what all this is about. He refused to listen to fans. He refused to even comprehend that someone could have a problem with his work. And he went right out and showed the contempt he has for people with those problems and those concerns.
I don’t care what the specific words were that incited it. I do care that it could be just as easily applied to anyone else with any complaint about his game. Just because he was responding to one person doesn’t mean it isn’t equally applicable to me or you. And that makes it newsworthy.
lokiju
3271
Way to avoid the point, mistyping and all.
I’m still unclear on how it makes the situation better that he was being a dick to his friend rather than a stranger.
Oh would you ever grow up.
We all know how Tom feels about the forum, it’s not some big secret. So questioning that is just stupid. Arguing that other people might not think the same, as Alan has said, is a wholly different matter however.
-edit- Also cheers for filling me in Wholly Schmidt, I’m only in from work and hadn’t had a chance to catch up on the whole story.
Way to have nothing to say in rebuttal. Show me how it was gossip.
Kalle
3275
No, fuck you. If Tom wants to tell us to step into line then that’s his prerogative, he doesn’t need you cheerleading him to do it.
Oghier
3276
This is the sort of ad hominem crap this forum does not need.
Look, dudes, I realize it’s a public forum. I realize sites like Kotaku, whose rapacious gaze we usually escape, will make much ado out of whatever they get their hands on. I’m just disappointed to see Pentadact and Kiernon take that approach. They seem to think a heated off-the-cuff comment is newsworthy. Apparently, so do a bunch of you guys, so I guess they’re just giving you what you want. Congratulations, because now you’re part of the problem as well. Welcome to the internet, indeed.
But, really, is it newsworthy when a developer says something like this? I’m sure everyone here knows that the policy of Stardock and the official position of Brad Wardell is NOT that you shouldn’t buy their games if you don’t like the state that Elemental is in. What an inane thing to think. A dude got pissed, he said something stupid, and he very quickly apologized for it. And Kiernon Gillen and crew, as well as Tom Francis, decided to feature that comment as if it somehow meant something more, without getting any sort of comment from Brad, or without any meaningful context.
And for those of you quick to laud them for somehow representing what you want in your Games Journalism ™, you should note that contacting Brad Wardell is as easy as falling off a log. In the press releases for Elemental, the dude includes his Skype information and, I think, even a frickin’ cell phone number. I’m sure his PR company hates how immediately available he is! But Kiernon and Tom couldn’t care less about this if it’s somehow going to stop them from posting some salacious little bit of nastiness in their stories about Elemental. Because I guarantee if they’d contacted Brad, he would have clarified the matter in much the same way he did when he apologized.
And since some of you missed it, I would feel the same way about this issue if it were any other developer posting on my forum. That Brad is a friend of mine has no bearing on this issue, except that it makes it even more depressing.
So it’s cool if you don’t like Brad talking that way, or if you think he’s a turd. It’s cool if you don’t like Elemental, and it’s even cool if you want to spend your time at Kotaku F5ing frantically to see what they come up with next. I not bitching about this because I think I can somehow change the nature of Games Journalism ™. I’m bitching because people who I thought were members of this community have effectively abused the forum by using it for cheap fodder in a stupid contrived internet drama about a developer meltdown. That’s not news. That’s gossip. That’s Games Journalism ™.
-Tom
That’s not what I was trying to say at all. But whatever
Mrenda
3280
No. It’s exactly what’s needed. Brad acted like a complete prick. Think of it this way, if I said to a black guy who had a problem with something “well if you don’t like it here, you can fuck off back to Africa” Am I being a prick to him or am I being a generally racist asshole? Because that’s what no-one seems to be saying. I certainly don’t remember who Brad quoted when he responded with the lines that have caused this shitstorm. But people seem to be getting in hot water for pointing out that someone who has up until now been courting their cash, holds them in contempt.
Of course I’ve already explained all that. But you’d rather ignore the rest of my post and take one thing actually out of context, which is rather ironic.
