3281

It wasn’t supposed to be good, just better than the other list.

On a separate note, my thread-summary service will still be releasing on time and accept Paypal™.

Telling someone you know that you are going to beat the shit out of them has different ramifications than telling someone whom you don’t know that you are going to beat the shit out of them. People hearing that who don’t know you are friends are going to react to it differently as well than people who aren’t aware you know each other.

Wow, that was a place I didn’t think even this thread would go.

3282

I don’t feel inclined to point out the obvious for you. Go open a dictionary. In any case, I stand by my belief that journalist members of this community shouldn’t take advantage of it’s unique nature, even if Brad did make mistakes.

3283

Wicked burn!

3284

Tom, it’s weird that all you got out of the RPS story was that it was about a developer meltdown. I don’t see that as even remotely the point of the article. The quote itself is just an ancillary detail, no the main point. I’m sorry, Tom, but I think the problem here is that you’re too close to the issue, not that they fucked up.

Moreover, Kieron came in here and appeared perfectly willing to calmly discuss the issue with you. In return he got cursing and overblown invective. Isn’t that the sort of the behavior that started this whole mess?

3285

Well, an accusation that they somehow dismantled the Gamers Bill of Rights is more of a developer cover-up/conspiracy angle, so fair point. It’s more like using the developer meltdown as dessert scooped from the Qt3 trough.

Oh, is that what that was? At any rate, I’m pretty sure I responded in kind to his “welcome to the internet” post.

-Tom
3286

So let’s leave it alone 'cause we can’t see eye to eye.
There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy,
There’s only you and me and we just disagree.
Ooh-ooh-ooh, oh-oh-oh.

3287

I opened a dictionary and it told me that you spelled “its” wrong. It also told me to tell you to go eat a hot box of dicks. I feel inclined to tell you a stomach full of dicks might do you some good.

Also, I agree with that sentiment within limits. I believe those limits are exceeded when a gaming developer CEO says a litany of things that cause legitimate concern for his new game in terms of what the buying public should know, as what happened here. Furthermore, that box of dicks is getting cold and it isn’t going to eat itself.

3288

Again, a weird interpretation, especially given that they’ve updated with a correction there. I read it as a story about Stardock talking the talk but not walking the walk.

Is that what that was? I’m pretty sure I responded in kind to his “welcome to the internet” post.
So you took a single line from a lengthy, thoughtful post as the only bit worth responding to? Aren’t you all up in arms about context being important?

3289

Do I detect hypocrisy?

3290

I don’t know, why don’t you go look it up in a dictionary and tell me.

3291

What part of the post was thoughtful again? I’ve been around long enough to know a simple content-free “we stand by what we wrote” disclaimer. I’ve had a few of them written on my behalf when I would have much rather had a substantive discussion. Or maybe you just meant the thoughtfully condescending parts of his long thoughtful post?

By the way, I’m glad Rock Paper Shotgun has seen fit to both edit and update their post. I haven’t seen it since it was originally linked. But more than anything Kieron has said, that implies to me they know they screwed up.

 -Tom
3292

I’m glad we will all forget about this by Friday.

3293

I opened a dictionary and it told me that you spelled “its” wrong

Noted.

It also told me to tell you to go eat a hot box of dicks. I feel inclined to tell you a stomach full of dicks might do you some good.

Well I am a bad girl so…

Furthermore, that box of dicks is getting cold and it isn’t going to eat itself.

You sure seem to like talking about dicks…

3294

Would you even believe my answer?

3295

Sorry Tom but you are also trying really hard to miss the point. The core of their article wasn’t Brad’s statement. Without the issues that Elemental has there wouldn’t be any news.
It is the combination of what Brad said and the state of Elemental and he still didn’t change his point of view in regards to the quality of the release.

But, really, is it newsworthy when a developer says something like this? I’m sure everyone here knows that the policy of Stardock and the official position of Brad Wardell is NOT that you shouldn’t buy their games if you don’t like the state that Elemental is in. What an inane thing to think. A dude got pissed, he said something stupid, and he very quickly apologized for it. And Kiernon Gillen and crew, as well as Tom Francis, decided to feature that comment as if it somehow meant something more, without getting any sort of comment from Brad, or without any meaningful context.

I haven’t seen Brad (or other devs for that matter) complaining when other stuff that was positive for them which isn’t “newsworthy” by your standards have been reported.
And I can only repeat myself, the important part wasn’t this whole “don’t buy our games if you don’t like them” thing (I have seen similar posts by other devs tbh). It’s really the fact that Brad saw no issue at all with Elemental and simply refused valid criticism.
So no, noone thinks that he actualy wants people NOT to buy the game but his statement DOES give insight in regards to his view and understanding of game quality and this is “newsworthy”.
And I still don’t see the “context” which is missing here and it is not like a comment by Brad is required to make this news post.

And for those of you quick to laud them for somehow representing what you want in your Games Journalism ™, you should note that contacting Brad Wardell is as easy as falling off a log. In the press releases for Elemental, the dude includes his Skype information and, I think, even a frickin’ cell phone number. I’m sure his PR company hates how immediately available he is! But Kiernon and Tom couldn’t care less about this if it’s somehow going to stop them from posting some salacious little bit of nastiness in their stories about Elemental. Because I guarantee if they’d contacted Brad, he would have clarified the matter in much the same way he did when he apologized.

What is there to clarify? Sounds more like you expect RPS to wait for a perfect PR statement from Stardock to make this whole thing sound nicer.
Also his apology was only about the way he said things but the content is still the same.

And since some of you missed it, I would feel the same way about this issue if it were any other developer posting on my forum. That Brad is a friend of mine has no bearing on this issue, except that it makes it even more depressing.

I don’t think that developers need any special protection and it was Brad who was out of line and noone else. It is simply wrong to turn him now into the victim. He is the one receiving money and starting this thread as well as marketing Elemental in here.

So it’s cool if you don’t like Brad talking that way, or if you think he’s a turd. It’s cool if you don’t like Elemental, and it’s even cool if you want to spend your time at Kotaku F5ing frantically to see what they come up with next. I not bitching about this because I think I can somehow change the nature of Games Journalism ™. I’m bitching because people who I thought were members of this community have effectively abused the forum by using it for cheap fodder in a stupid contrived internet drama about a developer meltdown. That’s not news. That’s gossip. That’s Games Journalism ™.

-Tom

I don’t know why you bring in Kotaku in all of this all the time. This really doesn’t make your point any more valid, kinda the contrary. It is offending to those people like me who are civil about this and simply have a different opinion on this matter than you.
You also keep repeating the same thing over and over. Either Brads posts in this forum have credibility and then they are free to use for news or they don’t and then it’s questionable why one should post here at all.
And just to repeat it once more, the main problem wasn’t that bit of drama, it was the CONTEXT (you talk a lot of context and ignore it yourself).
The context was the reaction to valid criticism despite the fact that Brad even asked for it and Brad might have excused himself for the way he did it but he didn’t really change his attitude towards the state of the game and that was afterall the core of the news (a warning in regards to the state of the game and not that some dev was “mean” to another forum member).

Edit: I’m btw working as a journalist so im always cautious when it comes to such harash criticism against someones work as journalist.

3296

Whereas I thought KG was responding rather politely to your “Fuck you, RPS” post.

3297

The part where he responded to your blanket “fuck yous” (remember that part? You still sure he started it with the “welcome to the internet” bit?) with a calm description of why he felt the story was newsworthy.

I’ve been around long enough to know a simple content-free “we stand by what we wrote” disclaimer. I’ve had a few of them written on my behalf when I would have much rather had a substantive discussion. Or maybe you just meant the thoughtfully condescending parts of his long thoughtful post?
What, precisely, do you feel is condescending in this bit:
For the record, the post was a group RPS effort. Quinns did the initial leg work and then we all piled in and made it vaguely work like we wanted it to. Even if we didn’t, we’re all Quinns’ editors and so the buck stops with us. With hindsight, we should have made the post be under the RPS group-name header to avoid throwing the lad to the wolves. It wasn’t his idea.

It struck us as news. The quote was the secondary part of the story - the fact that there’s so much teeth-grinding over Elemental’s release state when they previously published bill of rights saying such release states are unacceptable is the story - but it certainly seemed like part of the story.

So, please Tom, aim that Fuck You’s all at me. And Jim and Alec and John. But give me John’s, as I’m less likely to cry.

Is it the part where he defends his writer? The part where he explains the intent of the story? Or the part where he asks that you aim your previous fuck yous at him?

I don’t see condescension there at all. I see an admirably restrained response to a flat out insulting call-out made by you.

The “welcome to the internet” is certainly snarky. But given that the conversation was opened by the artillery barrage of fuck yous that you posted, I can’t say it’s entirely unjustified.

By the way, I’m glad Rock Paper Shotgun has seen fit to both edit and update their post. I haven’t seen it since it was originally linked. But more than anything Kieron has said, that implies to me they know they screwed up.
The only thing they’ve edited is the title and the fact that the Gamer Bill of Rights can be found elsewhere. Since the quote itself still remains, I’m guessing they feel ok about it.

3298

Since you seem bad about taking no-so-subtle hints, here’s the straight-to-the-point version.

You. Are. A. Clueless. Idiot.

Go eat your bag of dicks. In case that sentance confuses you I’d like to clarify that it is something called a “metaphor”. You’re welcome to look up the word “metaphor” in your dictionary as long as you’ve got it open btw. And if you haven’t figured out that you’re being mocked for making dictionary putdowns yet you really are an idiot.

3299

You know, I have a pretty high tolerance for things getting out of hand on message boards, and even I think this thread has spiraled way beyond my threshold for how-best-to-tell-someone-to-eat-a-bag-of-dicks. It’s turned into:

Fuck you!

No, fuck YOU!

No, you’re a retard!

No, YOU’RE a retard and are also retarded!

etc…

Even the typically level-headed and “can argue without attacking” types around here have started to let their inner asshole fly.

Can we all take a few deep breaths, count to ten, and start talking about the game instead of turning this into the 24-hour news stations version of “discussion” where all we do is make more controversy by talking about the controversial thing the previous person just said, and then talking about how that was an attack, and then talking about how this is now “the story”? This is the story because we’re making it the story.

Let’s get back to talking about the broken game I’m trying my best to enjoy, even as it seeks to actively confound me at every turn.

3300

Tom, in all seriousness, I think you have an inability to read tone from any post that disagrees with you. Every once in a while you surprise me with some good self-awareness about your own level of snark/rudeness/what have you, but when it comes to the shit that other people say to you, I just can’t figure out how you come to your conclusions.

I don’t mean to say that you can’t explain yourself well or anything like that, but your initial assumptions about what other people are saying are so wrong so much of the time that I think you might want to re-evaluate the mental voice you use to read other people’s posts to you.