But it says ALL-purpose … right there in the thread title … fine, there is something about a game in there too
Adree
3303
As much as we all hate Kotaku how about persons of a beret persuasion stop name-dropping them as an example of who would run this type of story when they are just about the only ones who didn’t run the goddamned story.
Xemu
3304
Speaking as a developer who represents himself and not officially his company or their publisher(s) and other business partners…
I think it’s too bad that Brad has been taken out of context. I know that the clock is ticking on me too before I eventually say something stupid here and live to regret it. Hopefully I won’t let that stop me from trying to be an actual human being here (and elsewhere) instead of a PR-bot, but I can’t deny that events like this (which I think are mostly the tragedy of the commons) make that even more inevitable than it already was.
I would hope that no matter how badly I put my foot in my mouth, people will judge the games I work on in their own right. If my game sucks, that’s fair to say so, particularly if you can say why insightfully. Blast away, I learn from the process and we all benefit from intelligent criticism and analysis.
But personally, I want to be involved in showing more people HOW game development works and WHY we make the decisions we do. Sometimes that isn’t pretty, but it doesn’t get any better if people intentionally ascribe meaning that isn’t there. The echo chamber nature of the internet today means that a little bit of bad signal gets boosted very quickly. Brad’s comments certainly weren’t chosen with great care there, but he has apologized and I think it all just forms a giant distraction from other, much more meaningful issues.
Yes, this is a public forum. I think it’s 1000% fair game for sites to take Brad & Stardock to task for the state they released Elemental in. Personally, I’m enjoying it even with the flaws though I can see how others might not (and I got lucky on stability it seems). But I don’t think it’s proper cricket to use quotes here (or any other “casual” venue) to misrepresent. Doing so just forces a lower quality of discourse all around.
Of course now I’m probably guaranteeing to see the following in a headline somewhere…
Game developer Rob “Xemu” Fermier says quote, “Speaking as a developer who represents… his company … my game sucks.”
Let me see if I understand the current state of things:
Tom has tried to create a certain type of community here.
Tom thinks the actions of Tom Francis and the RPS crew undermine what he has tried to accomplish.
Kieron Gillen welcomes Tom to the Internet.
ioticus
3306
Thought this gamespot reviewer was spot on:
…Says noted journalist Jason Cross. Oh, and also:
:(
The only person than should profit from the goings-on at QT3 is Tom, damnit, and don’t you forget that, Kieron, if that really is your name.
Did you guys dig Rob’s thread on Age of Empires Online? Yeah, me too. Do you ever wonder how many of those sorts of things we miss because of the current blog mentality that passes for games writing? Yeah, me too. Do you realize how many more of those we’re going to miss because of the cavalier attitude Kieron and Tom Francis have about how they treat this place?
I guess my mistake is to blame them. They’re just doing their jobs, giving you what you want…
I think he also called me Moses somewhere in there.
-Tom
mono
3310
Look, all I want to know is if Tom’s consistent misspelling of Kieron’s name as “Kiernon” is some sort of a clever insult that I’m too stupid to pick up on, or just a simple mistake.
EDIT: OK, I guess it’s not that consistent.
Kebooo
3311
I bet you didn’t expect all this to spawn after your constructive feedback. I half expect to turn CNN on and see Brad being led away from Stardock in handcuffs and for Elemental to get a 2.0 metacritic rating.
If you think I run this forum to make a profit, you’re sadly mistaken. I run this forum because it’s the kind of place I want to hang out. And you can bet I’m going to be protective when I feel that’s being compromised.
-Tom
This the point to me, and I don’t know Brad personally.
Thread overreactions are not really for public quoting on other websites. Brad has plenty of public comment on his company site.
There is a difference if Tom makes a comment about a game in a thread here and in an actual review. The thread comment should not lifted and published on another site as “Tom Chick like/hates game X”.
Once upon a time there was something called “implied off the record” where responsible journalists used some common sense…
Adree
3314
Isn’t Fidgit a blog? I agree though, we need less news feed, numbered lists, and press release regurgitation and more analysis. GiantBomb strikes a pretty good balance in their news section, they put up some feed stuff but the main contributors often put lengthy write-ups on developer visits and such.
Mordrak
3315
I know what you’re driving at, but that’s not a healthy comparison. While when it comes to the enthusiast press, it’s implications aren’t as terrible, it’s largely why the mainstream press has gone to shit because they are writing articles influenced by off the record lies and bullshit. You get politicians feeding juicy bits of information to reporters “off the record” making them feel in the loop, when really the journalist is providing a shield for propaganda.
Tom’s point is his hope is that this place, between some people at least, it’s a conversation between, internet friends. On/off the record should have nothing to do with it.
You totally lifted that adorable Starcraft 2 easter art on Fidgit from the SC2 thread though, so don’t lie and say you aren’t profiting! It’s a gold mine around here.
(I don’t need an emoticon here do I? I’m terrified of all the hair triggers in this thread).
Leinad
3317
I rather wonder about the mentality in regards to the quality of games released nowadays and could care less about blogging.
I just don’t get you here Tom. Just because devs are open about their development process doesn’t mean they get a free pass when it comes to valid criticism or the credibility of what they say.
You might have your own agenda here due to the “special” role this forum has but I as gamer and customer can’t let devs get away with anything.
@ Xemu:
I think you are being overdramatic there. Brad wasn’t talking about some hobby and the context was clearly stated. He talked about his own game and responded to feedback on his game.
I don’t know why its so hard to draw a clear line there, I do it myself too when it comes to the internet and my job or even hobby.
Brad was clearly talking as dev (CEO) when it comes to Elemental and this right from the start. He wasn’t in this thread as mere gamer, he was in here because it is HIS game, marketing it, provoding support, getting feedback, posting official news etc.
So why should anyone act like he has no connection to Elemental?
You would have a point if someone took his personal views on politics or another game he has nothing to do with (for example) to stir up some shit but this didn’t happen in here.
For me it is really irritating that Brad is now somehow becoming the “victim”. He is a grown up man and voiced himself in a healthy mental state.
You can’t blame the “evil” internet/media (whatever) for what he said and that he apologise doesn’t change the fact that it happened.
Yes, it does mean you should be carefull with what you say but that’s always the case, especially if you run a business and nothing new.
So maybe the lesson is to think about what someone says or writes instead of saying that people shouldn’t be held responsible for what they say.
Adree
3318
Interesting news update over at ElementalGame.com
http://forums.elementalgame.com/392671
For one we learn of a vast retail-wing conspiracy
Elemental marks 2 of 2 in terms of broken street dates and it really biting us in the rear end. There’s a reason why most games today require you to install and get the instant update and are locked out until release day. It’s something we’re going to have to really think about in the future. With Demigod, one could have said it was a fluke. But with Elemental, it’s a pattern.
This isn’t my area of expertise but I’m getting a new found respect for the engine coders. Talk about frustration and scary. You get one video card that leaks memory (think megs per turn) if you use feature X, but if you turn it off, then it causes alt-tab to break. You got Windows XP Sp5 with older video cards having one weird issue while first generation quad core having a different issue.
I for one was not aware that all modern games have Day 1 patches and that there are so many video cards out there that it is impossible to make sure alt-tab does not break the game. They may want to check with their programmer and make sure he is not a time-traveler from 1997.
One of the benefits of being a small, privately owned company is that we can focus on things for reasons besides quarterly earnings.
I was not aware that it was quarterly earnings that made games arrive (in general) playable!
Personally speaking, I feel like too many games come out these days to be “consumed” and then moved onto. As an “old time” gamer, I want to have a game that I’m playing for years and years to come.
Obviously we’re all just not taking small enough bites out of the game. We shouldn’t even be out of the title screen yet.
Enjoy your vacation Brad.
Double AND I believe that’s the exact type of "Kotaku"ing that Tom was originally annoyed about.
For fuck’s sake, they’re reporting on PCG reporting on the quote. That’s about 180 degrees and 200 parsecs away from Kieron sitting down with Ken Levine and putting together one of the best interviews I’ve ever read, particularly about gaming issues. Either there’s a crazy wide quality differential in the bullpen at RPS that I’ve not noticed before, someone dropped the ball, or it was a quick, cheap shot to try to cash in on the nerd-gamer geek drama du jour.
Dejin
3320
Okay I generally like GiantBomb but that one is just pathetic. I know Lorini’s Fox News comparison was for the RPS article, but there are elements of the Giantbomb article that are very Fox News-like. Specifically they report what the PC Gamer says doesn’t work without bothering to try it out themselves. While the statements are attributed, they are prominently featured in the article as bullet points. The bullet points particularly bother me, because for someone glancing through the article, it really looks like those are GiantBomb’s conclusions, not PC Gamers.
It is totally like Fox News: Glenn Beck says so-and-so, therefore that makes it news, and we will report what he said without any attempt to verify whether what he’s saying is true or not. We don’t have to verify it, because we aren’t really reporting that Obama is a secret Muslim, we’re reporting on the fact that Glenn Beck is saying Obama is a secret Muslim. It is a fact that Glenn Beck is saying it, and therefore we’ve done all we need to do to maintain our journalistic integrity. We don’t have to verify that what Glenn Beck is saying is true, just that Glenn Beck is indeed saying it.
Essentially they are saying “We’re not saying Elemental is complete crap, we’re saying PC Gamer is saying Elemental is complete crap. Here are the specific items which PC Gamer says are crap. We haven’t attempted to verify this ourselves, but just to reiterate: PC Gamer says the game is complete crap and you should not buy it.” What kind of a game magazine or professional gaming website doesn’t bother doing their own analysis and criticism of a game but instead republishes what a different game magazine says about a game. This is just bizarre.
The rest of the article is mostly fine. But I think quoting another journalist’s compaints of the game verbatim without making their own attempt to verify the information is just downright pathetic.
