Elemental all-purpose thread

[Damien_Neil]

To put racial overtones on this storyline would also be implying the same thing with JRR Tolkien’s stories.

Shit, man, examining race issues in Tolkien is practically a cottage industry.

[Angie_Gallant]

I think my argument may be getting lost somewhat here. I am not saying that one can’t find and interpret, in their reading of the material, racial subtexts. Actually, if someone doesn’t find it in most fantasy, than I would be concerned with their ability to interpret literature.

My main point was in the attribution of these racial subtexts as directly related to the intention of the author, either consciously or subconsciously on their part. I think that is an area of big concern, often what the audience sees and interprets from an artists work may have no relation to what they thought (if anything) they were writing. In this case, the story calls on so many standard tropes of fantasy, that I would more likely contribute the racial subtext to Brad just recycling these standard fantasy tropes.

Alright, I can see where you are coming from. I think I did acknowledge that these easily could be common fantasy tropes being used without thought in my review. I certainly didn’t say that I think Brad is a racist or anything to that effect. I don’t know the man and I am not going to comment on his character. I just think it’s a shame that those tropes remain as common as they are, and that they deserve to be called out.

[Stepsongrapes]

Also, everything by Troika. Which are (now) some of my favorite games.

Troika games have always been buggy. They have NEVER been content-light. If anything, those guys had too many ideas to implement well.

There’s a huge difference between patching to fix code and patching in the actual game content.

[Dan_Theman]

I’ve only played Dragon Age out of that list, but that was a finished game. Patches weren’t for content or features.

Patches were for fixes to some very significant technical problems in that game. EA sells content as DLC. It was not in good shape when immediately released (there was also a huge issue with the verification servers). That last sentence was my entire point of including it.

Anyway, I was not trying to say it was the same thing, just decrying the state of PC gaming when it comes to the condition of games at release.

You know, I spend far more time in this particular thread trying to explain what I wasn’t saying than contributing original thought. I think maybe that’s a sign to leave it be.

[Cubit]

Alright, I can see where you are coming from. I think I did acknowledge that these easily could be common fantasy tropes being used without thought in my review. I certainly didn’t say that I think Brad is a racist or anything to that effect. I don’t know the man and I am not going to comment on his character. I just think it’s a shame that those tropes remain as common as they are, and that they deserve to be called out.

This post disgusts me. The Stardock employee told me you thought Bradley was an evil racist, yet here you are writing something entirely reasonable. Bah!

[Galadin]

Shit, man, examining race issues in Tolkien is practically a cottage industry.

Exactly, but that is my point, I don’t think Brad put race issues in the book intentionally, or really even thought about it. I think he was just following standard fantasy tropes that can go all the way back to Tolkien.

Whereas I know Tolkien meant for his work to be interpreted, even if he never actually said what that interpretation was, I don’t think the same is true with this book. I think this is just a throw away fantasy story that Brad borrows heavily from standard fantasy to build. In borrowing these elements, race issues show up, but again, I think that might be giving more capability to Brad to think it is his writing ability, versus just the borrowing of these tropes from previous works that happened to contain these same racial issues.

[EvilIdler]

Dragon Age? Check.
Empire: Total War? Check.
Spore? Check.
GTA? Check.
Gothic 3? Check.

The list goes on.

Out of those I have, I’ve waited until they were patched up to actually buy them all.

[Galadin]

Alright, I can see where you are coming from. I think I did acknowledge that these easily could be common fantasy tropes being used without thought in my review. I certainly didn’t say that I think Brad is a racist or anything to that effect. I don’t know the man and I am not going to comment on his character. I just think it’s a shame that those tropes remain as common as they are, and that they deserve to be called out.

Angie, I didn’t mean my post to be directed at anyone in particular. I was actually responding to different memes that appeared to be starting to play out in discussions about the book, reviews, possible smear campaign (does this book really need that by the way?) and such that were showing up in the subtext of conversations across multiple forums.

I just don’t usually write in most forums, as I prefer the more intellectual engagements found here than in other places on the internet.

My post was more intended to make sure that, while there may be interpretations found in an artists work, to directly relate those interpretations as the direct intention of the artist can be incorrect.

Again, I didn’t mean this to be any direct rebuttal of anything you wrote but as a response to the memes starting to show up in discussions.

[JM1]

I bought all of those except Gothic 3 at release, or preordered. Empire:TW was a mess. The rest aren’t really an Elemental situation - Spore was just a bad game, GTA seemed fine for me, DA was a fully complete game…

[Damien_Neil]

Exactly, but that is my point, I don’t think Brad put race issues in the book intentionally, or really even thought about it. I think he was just following standard fantasy tropes that can go all the way back to Tolkien.

Sure, but I don’t see what that has to do with anything. I didn’t see anything in Angie’s review that said anything about Brad’s intentions; she saw race issues in the book, and pointed them out.

Also, olive-skinned bad guys vs. white-skinned good guys is not a “standard fantasy trope” in any of the contemporary heroic fantasy I read.

[Murbella]

I’m thinking “months” was overstating it, but I’d say a very sizeable percentage my PC games required patches in order to “play right.” Hell, Dragon Age only fairly recently fixed the last of their dex issues (at least I think they’re all fixed, now). In no way does that mean that they’re equivalent as games, but let’s not pretend that half-baked releases are rarities in PC gaming.

Dragon Age? Check.
Empire: Total War? Check.
Spore? Check.
GTA? Check.
Gothic 3? Check.

The list goes on.

DA wasn’t unfinished on release.

Spore wasn’t unfinished, it was just bad and suffered from numerous core design problems (such as no depth at all).

Gothic 3 was kind of buggy i guess, but again, like spore mostly design problems.

[Mordrak]

Exactly, but that is my point, I don’t think Brad put race issues in the book intentionally, or really even thought about it. I think he was just following standard fantasy tropes that can go all the way back to Tolkien.

Whereas I know Tolkien meant for his work to be interpreted, even if he never actually said what that interpretation was, I don’t think the same is true with this book. I think this is just a throw away fantasy story that Brad borrows heavily from standard fantasy to build. In borrowing these elements, race issues show up, but again, I think that might be giving more capability to Brad to think it is his writing ability, versus just the borrowing of these tropes from previous works that happened to contain these same racial issues.

The thing that strikes me as weird, that takes it beyond just normal race issues in fantasy tropes, is Angie’s characterization of the bad guy’s position. If Angie’s characterization of his motives are accurate, then that goes above and beyond the orcs are the other.

[Teiman]

If the book is not very good, and will not help sales of the game, nor will make rich his authors. I wonder why exist.

Like we need more “standard fantasy”. Well… I don’t need any more of it, for me is a oxymoron. You want fantasy? fine, use your imagination and create a world from scratch, not from other people books. Human-centipede has more fantasy than “standard fantasy”.

[Juan_Rayo]

Human-centipede has more fantasy than “standard fantasy”.

And so it was that in this stormy afternoon, I, googled for human centipede, and regretted it, and i do not recommend it to anyone ever, what is seen cannot be unseen, and that is all I saw, and thank you for that, you jerk!.

[Dan_Theman]

DA wasn’t unfinished on release.

Spore wasn’t unfinished, it was just bad and suffered from numerous core design problems (such as no depth at all).

Gothic 3 was kind of buggy i guess, but again, like spore mostly design problems.

Patches were for fixes to some very significant technical problems in that game. EA sells content as DLC. It was not in good shape when immediately released (there was also a huge issue with the verification servers). That last sentence was my entire point of including it.

Anyway, I was not trying to say it was the same thing, just decrying the state of PC gaming when it comes to the condition of games at release.

You know, I spend far more time in this particular thread trying to explain what I wasn’t saying than contributing original thought. I think maybe that’s a sign to leave it be.

Maybe just quoting myself repeatedly would be better?

[kerzain]

And so it was that in this stormy afternoon, I, googled for human centipede, and regretted it, and i do not recommend it to anyone ever, what is seen cannot be unseen, and that is all I saw, and thank you for that, you jerk!.

Just wait till you see my concept art for the upcoming H.C. free to play MMO.

[Teiman]

And so it was that in this stormy afternoon, I, googled for human centipede, and regretted it, and i do not recommend it to anyone ever, what is seen cannot be unseen, and that is all I saw, and thank you for that, you jerk!.

Sorry about that.

Go read this, maybe some laughts will heal your temporal exposition to unfamiliar fantasies outside safe-territory
http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm
http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm

[idrisz]

Just wait till you see my concept art for the upcoming H.C. free to play MMO.

I get to be the head!!!

[Juan_Rayo]

Go read this, maybe some laughts will heal your temporal exposition to unfamiliar fantasies outside safe-territory

Ah hahahahaha thanks for that, it’s great! you just became guilty party to me doing a campaign using nothing BUT those monsters in there. Heads will explode.

[Alan_Friesen]

I was looking around on Steam today to see if I could find anything Elemental-related and found King’s Bounty and King Arthur. How do these compare to Elemental?