Elemental all-purpose thread

Dave_Weinstein · 2010-09-02T09:54:03.000Z

When I opened my ticket with Stardock, I detailed both gameplay and stability issues I was having.

They didn’t ask me to go to Tech Support, they just refunded my money (minus shipping charges for the box game).

Lazy_Shiftless_Basta · 2010-09-02T09:57:07.000Z

Janster · 2010-09-02T10:00:08.000Z

I remember Alan Emerich once talking about the importance of a design philosophy…and then he squirted out Master of Orion 3…

Razgon · 2010-09-02T10:01:27.000Z

Janster:

I remember Alan Emerich once talking about the importance of a design philosophy…and then he squirted out Master of Orion 3…

no. he didnt.

MrCoffee · 2010-09-02T10:01:59.000Z

There is a Master of Orion 3?

Janster · 2010-09-02T10:05:45.000Z

Yes he did, I got the article somewhere…

Razgon · 2010-09-02T10:07:09.000Z

Janster:

Yes he did, I got the article somewhere…

again, he didnt… he was fired because they wouldnt do things the way he wanted them done.

Quicksilver then proceeded to continue developing the game that is Moo3, and we all know how that went

Janster · 2010-09-02T10:11:40.000Z

In the article he talked about the importance of design philosophy. He was well on his way to making the game, but I am gonna guess that the gap between theory and what could actually be coded into game was too far. Also sometimes good ideas don’t become fun games.

Razgon · 2010-09-02T10:14:33.000Z

Janster:

In the article he talked about the importance of design philosophy. He was well on his way to making the game, but I am gonna guess that the gap between theory and what could actually be coded into game was too far. Also sometimes good ideas don’t become fun games.

He’s been designing games for what…over 25 years, so I guess he knows what he’s talking about. As for Moo3, I guess we will never know how the game would have been had he continued to be lead designer on Moo3 - but he didnt, and we have the current version as a result.

Oh, and now that its a true all-purpose thread, I’d like to say I really dig the front page of the forum and especially where it says welcome to the newest member :-D

Janster · 2010-09-02T10:21:35.000Z

Wow, I want to be him/her/it…

If I am gonna point out a design flaw, its that he was relying on the AI to do too much…
Our best AI’s today are morons, game Ai’s are worse than that…
I don’t care anymore tho, I hope he learned some lessons to pass on to his students…

We need more dino pics plx

Andrew · 2010-09-02T10:21:44.000Z

Multiplayer delayed is multiplayed denied?

Also, you should have tried to talk them up. 75% refund no questions asked, another 5% if you can produce proof you looked at their tech support forums. Another 2% if you can prove you upgraded to the latest video card drivers.

vyshka · 2010-09-02T11:07:10.000Z

Janster:

In the article he talked about the importance of design philosophy. He was well on his way to making the game, but I am gonna guess that the gap between theory and what could actually be coded into game was too far. Also sometimes good ideas don’t become fun games.

I have never seen anything where he has really talked about what happened. It would be very interesting to read about that, and what he envisioned for the game versus what Quicksilver popped out. I imagine there was an agreement when they parted ways to not talk about it.

Oh, and

darkurthe · 2010-09-02T12:44:11.000Z

Janster:

I remember Alan Emerich once talking about the importance of a design philosophy…and then he squirted out Master of Orion 3…

Philosophy need not be for good.

Janster · 2010-09-02T12:46:21.000Z

Nice dino, can never go wrong with a good dino pic.

Never heard or seen him comment stuff afterwards, my article was before he got let off.
I guess we can only speculate, which also happens to be the life blood of forums :)

Scotch_Lufkin · 2010-09-02T12:49:33.000Z

Obviously off topic, but is Stardock still overing refunds for Elemental at this point?

Rob_Merritt · 2010-09-02T13:02:23.000Z

Janster:

I remember Alan Emerich once talking about the importance of a design philosophy…and then he squirted out Master of Orion 3…

ArmandoPenblade · 2010-09-02T13:16:50.000Z

Pretty sure that Brad just referred to the current game state as beta if not flat-out unfinished. interesting read.

forums.elementalgame.com/394855/page/2/#2753014

KevinC · 2010-09-02T13:20:51.000Z

That was an incredibly interesting post by Brad Wardell. Reposted here:

"Brad':

(I’m up north on vacation typing on an extremely slow connection so bear with me)

I don’t think people yet fully realize the completeness of Stardock’s fail on Elementa’s launch.

I’m going to write more about this but not only did we think v1.05 was ready for everyone but we felt v1.0 was too. That’s the level of disconnect/poor judgment on our part we’re talking about.

If the game had come out in February, it would still have been a disastrous launch because lack of time wasn’t the issue. It was blindness, sheer blindness. We felt the game was finished. And I speak of v1.0, not v1.05. Blindness.

There will be massive consequences for Stardock’s game studio. I’ll be talking more about this when I get back. But the game wasn’t released early. The game was released poorly. Head in the sand syndrome imo. I’ve read the reviews as much as possible given my hideous internet access up here and I agree with them. We just didn’t see what they were talking about. We thought any complaints would be about polish points or something.

The point is, the issue here is far far worse than many of you think it is. I wish it was an issue of the game being released too early. That’s an easy thing for a company to “fix”. Elemental’s launch is the result of catastrophic poor judgment on my part.

EVERY competent software developer knows that the programmer must never be the one deciding whether the program is done. Yet, my love of Elemental broke my self discipline and I began coding on the game itself in vast amounts and lost any sense of objectivity on where the game’s state was. I normally only program the AI on our games so I can keep a level of distance from the game itself to determine whether it’s “Ready”. On Elemental, I was in love with the world and the game and lost my impartiality.

We’ll do better.

RepoMan · 2010-09-02T13:26:12.000Z

Well, that’s more honest than anything I’ve seen Brad post about the game yet. The first step is realizing you have a problem, and it sounds like he’s just taken that first step. Hope Stardock pulls through from all this, because errors like that have sunk plenty of other studios, some very recently (Realtime Worlds).

Telefrog · 2010-09-02T13:26:48.000Z

Wow. That is something.