Elemental all-purpose thread

Blackadar · 2010-09-02T15:16:00.000Z

JM:

Shut the fuck up already.

+1

Totally agree with you on that JM. The whole conspiracy theory from such a mea culpa just doesn’t hold water. In fact, it’s downright fucking stupid.

Andrew · 2010-09-02T15:16:18.000Z

The Punch Line:

It seems some people are willing to let themselves be fooled twice in order to make themselves feel like they weren’t fooled once.

“Oh, they didn’t know how bad the game was? Now I am exonerated for believing his pre-release hype. I will believe him now even though it’s pretty obvious he’s lying again, because it will make me feel better.”

Go away boring poster.

The_Punch_Line · 2010-09-02T15:17:48.000Z

Blackadar:

Furthermore, your financial point flies in the face of all evidence. If they’d already broken even from pre-orders before launch, why would it be financially more prudent to release now? They already had the money!

My guess is, and this is just a guess, is because they are a for-profit company and not a for-break-even company, and that six more months of development would turn that into a loss. I mean, duh.

vyshka · 2010-09-02T15:18:37.000Z

Is Tom on vacation?

Robert_Sharp · 2010-09-02T15:18:51.000Z

Selling a bad product is NOT profitable.

JM1 · 2010-09-02T15:18:57.000Z

Let’s be clear here: This thread is full of people who are fucking pissed off about the state of the game on release. Suggesting that we’re reacting positively to Brad’s post because we want to feel like we weren’t screwed at release is pure stupidity. Brad’s post doesn’t change what we got.

mouselock · 2010-09-02T15:18:59.000Z

Stepsongrapes:

With or without the twirling of moustaches?!

Never attribute to malice, etc… etc…

The_Punch_Line · 2010-09-02T15:19:42.000Z

Robert Sharp:

There’s NO WAY that a company like Stardock would intentionally do something like this.

You apparently don’t know what it costs to pay a bunch of developers for six months, that’s all I have to say about that.

The_Punch_Line · 2010-09-02T15:20:21.000Z

Robert Sharp:

Selling a bad product is NOT profitable.

You’re funny.

kerzain · 2010-09-02T15:21:05.000Z

If we had forum avatars, what would yours be The Punch Line?

KevinC · 2010-09-02T15:21:35.000Z

vyshka:

Is Tom on vacation?

I’m guessing he’s crying in a corner somewhere.

KevinC · 2010-09-02T15:23:53.000Z

The Punch Line:

You apparently don’t know what it costs to pay a bunch of developers for six months, that’s all I have to say about that.

It’s true, no one on Qt3 has any knowledge or experience about the industry. Not a single one, can you imagine?

Robert_Sharp · 2010-09-02T15:24:00.000Z

The Punch Line:

You apparently don’t know what it costs to pay a bunch of developers for six months, that’s all I have to say about that.

What? They’ll still be paying those developers. But now they’ll be paying them to fix a game that is losing sales by bad word of mouth rather than make a game that would sell more copies.

Mordrak · 2010-09-02T15:24:27.000Z

Robert Sharp:

Blackadar makes some great points. Giving refunds is bad business. In fact, the process of providing a refund not only makes you lose that sale, but costs you the equivalent of at least another sale (in profits, anyway). It’s expensive to have a bunch of people working at refunding orders and responding to complaints, etc. There’s NO WAY that a company like Stardock would intentionally do something like this. Wardell would have to be so stupid that he couldn’t put his own pants on. Whatever you might think about his politics or other positions in life, he’s not an idiot.

That’s not necessarily true. Brad may not be an idiot, but he may have been hoping the early buzz would carry the game until they could get it in better shape. Were they aware of the full extent of the technical problems? Probably not, though one wonders how they could not be aware of problems like the game blowing up on ATI cards.

Did they intentionally release a game that they knew would result in giving refunds to save face (particularly as a small gaming company, without other projects to balance their reputation)? Of course not, but that’s ridiculously specific situation that no business wants even when they purposely and knowingly make questionable decisions. The latter does not preclude the former from being true (relying on their self proclaimed “indie” status to dull some of the sting of a somewhat early release).

And honestly, I don’t know how anyone can say in 100% certainty, given how this went down, that Brad is not in fact an idiot. Yes, it takes one to know one, just so that’s out of the way.

Blackadar · 2010-09-02T15:24:38.000Z

The Punch Line:

My guess is, and this is just a guess, is because they are a for-profit company and not a for-break-even company, and that six more months of development would turn that into a loss. I mean, duh.

You don’t think they’re going to do 6 months of additional development now? Do you think they’ll just shut up shop on this product? Seriously? Unless they do shut up shop on Elemental, I guarantee you that releasing this under-baked has cost them money both in the short-term and the long-term. And if they do close it down, you can come back and gloat at me all you want and I’ll eat crow. But until that time, your argument holds no water whatsoever. Not only do they have to still fund the development, but now they have to contend with refunds, lost short term sales, lost long term sales, loss of goodwill, additional support costs, etc.

Here’s a hint for you - when you’re so far out in left field that I’m actually defending Stardock, you know you’re in la-la land. Because I’m not just a member of the Anti-Wardell Club for Men, I’m the President!

vyshka · 2010-09-02T15:24:47.000Z

The Punch Line:

You apparently don’t know what it costs to pay a bunch of developers for six months, that’s all I have to say about that.

You are talking to a forum full of game industry people.

John_Many_Jars · 2010-09-02T15:24:46.000Z

So can you be an orc? Orcs are cool.

Blackadar · 2010-09-02T15:27:25.000Z

The Punch Line:

…that’s all I have to say about that.

The Punch Line is Forest Gump! No wonder he doesn’t get it. So let’s not be too hard on him folks!

Stepsongrapes · 2010-09-02T15:28:28.000Z

Blackadar:

Here’s a hint for you - when you’re so far out in left field that I’m actually defending Stardock, you know you’re in la-la land. Because I’m not just a member of the Anti-Wardell Club for Men, I’m the President!

You would think someone who is so obviously a fuck-up themself would have sympathy for the fuck-up of others.

Punch Line, why don’t you have sympathy for your fellow fuck-ups?! Why, oh why, do you turn on your own?!

dbd1963 · 2010-09-02T15:30:03.000Z

Sheesh – there’s been a lot of whinging and storming for a game. I guess I can understand being attached to the idea of “I paid for it,” but it reminds me of an old story:

Two monks are walking down the road. They see an old lady having trouble walking, and the elder monk assists her. She seems irritable and is really having trouble, so he takes her up on his shoulders. For some reason, rather than being thankful, she becomes rude and even more demanding, saying that he is jostling her too much, and he should walk with a smoother gait, and why didn’t he walk closer to the shade of the trees? The younger monk heard it all and quietly stewed. Finally, they reached the town she was traveling to, and the elder monk set her down gently without a word. Rather than offer thanks, the old woman berated the old man for his clumsiness. He bowed, but said nothing. The two monks walked on their way in silence, until the younger monk could stand it no more. “I can’t believe how awful that old lady was to you? Why didn’t you say anything to her?” The elder monk looked up as if taken aback. “The old lady?” he said. “I put her down a mile ago. You should have also.”

I’m pragmatic. I like where it seems to be heading and I’m willing to wait to see if it gets there. If it never does, it might change some of my buying practices in the future, but I’m not going to rage about it.

I keep checking this thread to see if the patch that was aimed at yesterday might come out today, but no word on that I guess? I’m holding off playing again until that one comes out. (Elemental and Impulse is on my other computer.)