4421

Since you have a working experience with Brad, do you find his “head buried in the sand and we really didn’t realize how bad thing were” statement in this most recent post believable? On the one hand I’m impressed he would say that, but on the other hand the beta testers have been pretty clear that they were kicking and screaming about a lot of these issues all along and it’s just hard to think no one at Stardock could see those problems. I mean, I like the game but even I can see its flaws and core incompleteness.

I’m still trying to reconcile how a company could make the Gal Civ games and then so completely botch this release. And Brad’s comments today leave me more confused about the future of the game then ever.

4422

frank - fwiw I’m not dismissing the possibility that Brad is lying to us. I just think we’ll see what the reaction is that Brad refers to, and decide based on that.

4423

And for what it’s worth I don’t think that Brad’s lying, just playing a bit loose with the truth. Either that or the man is seriously bipolar.

4424

what I hope comes out of Elemental is a kind of redemption of Gas Powered Games, though I know it’s a pipe dream.

4425

part 2: http://forums.elementalgame.com/394855/page/4/#2753375

4426

Wasn’t SupCom2 that? Given their back catalogue, surely Demigod was viewed as more of a blip, and one with one specific issue rather than the game itself being a pile of crap.

I know it’s been referred to a few times on here - Matt Gallant outright claimed that Stardock had lied about Demigod - but what’s the issue? Was GPG screwed by Stardock?

4427

:psyduck:

I’ve asked on the forum if that’s meant to be a joke.

4428

I give Brad kudos for coming on to post a mea culpa, but he isn’t really being consistent about what he really thinks is wrong or what he is really planning to do about it. His first post made it seem like he realizes there are core issues with what’s been released that can’t be easily fixed but the second post seems to suggest that now that he’s “seen the light” they can fix a lot of things as long as they work hard on it for the next year.

It seems like an awfully big job and reminds me of Paradox in their earlier days. They’d throw out whole systems and release completely different ones as they released patches. And there is a core audience that will stick around for stuff like that. But there are also a lot of people who now have little or no faith in any Paradox title at release and wait until later, if ever, to buy games they might otherwise be interested in. The end result is that Paradox gets by on relatively small sales and profits. I don’t think that is what Stardock is trying to do.

The only good thing is that games are a side business to what Stardock does, so at least this isn’t a case where they are going to go out of business because of the scale of this.

4429

Yeah, I agree with you there.

My problem with Elemental is that I’m not sure that there’s anything worth salvaging beyond the original concept. The engine is a dud, the mechanics do not play nicely together, the AI is mostly worthless… the scale of the job required (IMO of course) to make this a “fantastic game” strikes me as being nearly as hard as starting from scratch - possibly harder if the issues Brad alluded to are structural defects.

4430

The problem with Elemental was that I am in love with it. To me, it’s not just a game. It’s a whole world that we can expand and build on. During the months of July and August, when I was working on the game non-stop, I literally had a hard time distinguishing the difference between the GAME, the MODS and the future. It all merged into one fuzzy centrality.

Sounds like a horrible problem for a designer and a writter. As a gamer, I only see what you DO put on the game. I can’t see what you have on your imagination.

There’s not constrains for things in his imagination. If is not made real (writting it down as code) is not “validated”.

This also sounds bad in a software project. where’s the roadmap? designs documents? prototypes?

He still too confident in the future, and I don’t expect things to be as happy as he seems to think will evolve.
But I trust his words*. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

*or maybe I don’t care enough and I already feel sympathy for the dude

4431

Colour me massively confused by Brad’s replies in that thread, especially to my post. I’m struggling to pin down his view on the game.

4432

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say there isn’t anything valuable in the current version of the game. I don’t think I would have been playing it as much if it had no redeeming features. It’s just that there are a bunch of things that need to be refined, a bunch of things that need to be rebalanced, and probably a bunch of things that need to be rethought from the ground up. There are a lot of good concepts that have been damaged by poor or incomplete execution that can still be saved for whatever the future of Elemental is. The problem is that right now we don’t have any idea what Brad thinks goes in what category, and his comments the first post about problems being deeper then we know is pretty ominous if he’s referring to core technical failures.

4433

Dale, do you have to drag Stardock forum matters into this one? Let it go. You’ll be happier.

4434

I agree. I understand his frustration, but he’d be better off at this point sending Brad an email then complaining about it here. While Brad has a history of reading this forum, I doubt he’ll ever have the time to catch up to the dozens and dozens of pages added in this thread since his last visit more then a week ago.

4435

Well, I stopped playing it :) For reference, I wasn’t expecting another MoM - I only played MoM after I played Elemental, and what a great game MoM is.

It’s just that I honestly can’t point to any one area of the game and go “that’s great, keep that”. Everything has problems, be it how that meshes with the rest of the game, or problems with the mechanics, or just implementation.

I guess it would help me to know what people actually like about the game beyond “one more turn”.

4436

Why wouldn’t they just ask reviewers to use Impulse and download the game? Doesn’t that sound reasonable?

I don’t really understand why so many people are out for blood. He’s apologized now and said they screwed up. What more do you want him to say? And don’t bother answering, Punch Line. You’re on ignore now.

4437

Mark, I wasn’t out for blood. I was actually defending Stardock (slightly, at least) in that post. It was a genuine question because I hadn’t seen any facts regarding it, and there had been some assumptions made by other posters. Tom cleared it up for us.

4438

Nor do I think he should.

In fact, I think he should also ignore the kids drinking the kool-aid (the eternal praise brigade awarding Elemental 10/10’s) at his own forums too, and look for solid advice from key beta testers/game owners who know how to plainly and clearly explain to someone what needs fixing without being an asshole, or a kiss-ass about it

4439

Your comment and his reply are not on the same street or city.
He continue commenting his original idea ignoring your words.

He seems to admit to “cherry-pick” the suggestions most favorable for the programmer (himself) and not the ones better for the game.

4440

Yeah, you’re right. It seems there is massive confusion over what the problem with the game actually is - Brad’s making MASSIVE FAIL! comments and referencing reviews but uh not actually saying what he thinks.