I agree with him and think GalCiv2 basic is a rather mediocre game. While it’s technically sound with a solid AI, it’s devoid of virtually any personality whatsoever IMO. Things like your enemies and the tech tree are just plain dull and I’ve never found the joy in researching “Laser 3” and “Laser 4”. The expansions flesh out your options a bit more, but even then the problem of the game being devoid of any real personality remains. I’d say the expansions raise the level of the game up from mediocre to fine in my book, but GalCiv2 lacks a sense of fun for me that makes the game an afterthought on my hard drive.
Sebmojo
4962
That’s fair enough. For me it’s the text - it has a feeling of being at arms length. Compare it to (say) Dawn of War 2 which is totally, gloriously committed to its own particular brand of flaring nonsense. By comparison, GalCiv2 is sort of ‘This is the typical message you’d expect to read right now, if you were playing a game like this. Which… you are! Ha, ha.’
Certainly not bad, but missing the x factor of why people play chin tapping evil overlord games.
Against that - this utterly fucking hilarious diary by Tom ‘not wanted on q23’ Francis.
And continuing to take shots at someone who was banned on this forum on another forum is any better? And I don’t find Matt G’s trashing of the book on Amazon any better or worse than Brad’s wife trying to anonymously write a positive review of it. Brad’s been rather abrasive in the past and now a lot of anti-Wardell folks are using the miserable launch of Elemental to pile on. Maybe it sucks to be BW right now, but he brought a lot of this on himself and calling people “stalkers” and “lowlifes” certainly isn’t going to help the situation. (NOTE: I am not defending death threats or calls to his house. Those actions aren’t excusable. But if they’re really happening, maybe BW shouldn’t be posting about it and instead should involve the proper authorities. Since he’s not, I have to wonder if that’s a bit of hyperbole.)
I realize (because I read the entire post) that Brad is responding to the cult of fanboys that tries to insulate Stardock (including a couple of recent additions to Qt3 who posted on this very page it seems), so his post isn’t all that bad. It’s really not targeted to the anti-Wardell camp. But at this stage there are a lot of sharks in the water and posting something that could be construed as inflammatory isn’t doing BW any good. He needs to learn that people will use selective quoting. As I said before, he should only post about the improvements in Elemental for quite some time. Anything else can and will be used against him in the court of public opinion.
Raife
4964
This is exactly what happens when you let Liberals buy your games.
Actually I have to agree with him, I bought it because it had such a good reputation and was just totally bored with it. I wouldn’t buy GalCiv 3 if they made it.
Repeating “BS BS BS” doesn’t make an argument.
JM1
4966
Matt wasn’t just trashing the book, he was trashing anyone who reviewed it. The “someone buy this woman the plus-size outfit she has in her wish list” comment was a complete and utter dick move.
Matt has gone after Brad, Stardock, and anyone defending them, been banned for it, re-registered and dialled the obsession levels up to 11. He’s lost it.
Alstein
4967
I think those are legitimate criticisms, but I don’t think that’s sufficient to make the game mediocre, just not great. To me, it’s the prototypical B+/A- game, not a classic, but falls just short, and is my game of choice when I have no internet. You’re right that TA is needed to make the game have longevity- I found DA uninspired, and GCII was a good start but lacked content.
Then again, I value AI in games heavily, as crap AI will make even the best game boring in SP. This is why I’m inclined to give Stardock ridiculous amounts of rope that I wouldn’t give any other company- I just know that if/when they get it right- they’ll make a game that I can play for years.
Honestly, my expectations for Elemental, at this stage in the game’s development, were rather low (they haven’t been met either)- but I preordered this on the expectation of eventual greatness, not initial.
Also, I want Brad to keep posting updates on the forums, but I think he needs some give and take with some in the community over there. They got a lot of good idea folks on the forums, and Brad should listen to them. The problem is the signal/noise ratio is as high as I’ve seen right now- which makes it hard for anything constructive to go on.
I totally agree he’s lost it. Heck, that’s why I was the first one to ID The Punch Line as a Matt alt - it was just so over the top that it just was hard to believe that it could be anyone but Matt. Still, I don’t see much difference as it relates to the Amazon thing. I find Brad’s wife trying to pass off a positive anonymous review just as much of a dick move and there’s certainly a bunch of posts personally attacking Angie on that Amazon thread as well. It seems like both sides have lost it, though I’d say Matt’s in the lead on the crazy factor.
JM1
4969
I thought Brad’s wife posted a comment, not a review? I might be wrong on that.
Stardock fanboys going into attack mode means nothing, really. Rune_74 and friends are just noise. But because of Matt’s obsession, Brad does have the right to call him on his actions. It’s gone from being a few posts in a thread to a concerted campaign.
That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. It doesn’t get anywhere close to a B+/A- game with me. I’d give GalCiv2 nothing more than a C+ and only a B- with the expansions due to the fact that I grow bored very quickly playing GalCiv2. I simply don’t get much enjoyment out of the product, especially one I’ve dropped $100 on. Since I play games primarily for the entertainment, a game that fails to entertain qualifies as mediocre in my book. As such, it’s certainly not “hilariously wrong” as you phrased it or “BS” as another poster said. It’s not like my statement (or that of the other poster who called it mediocre) is factually incorrect, it’s a simple difference of opinion.
It doesn’t make sense to me why your expectations would be low on a game that you’ve preordered. Seems to me that if you’re preordering a game, you’d have some fairly high expectations. After all, if you’re only expecting “eventual greatness”, then why not wait until it achieves that level and then order? That kind of boggles my mind a bit because I don’t order and pay for a product now that I expect to be substandard but may eventually be good. As such, I wonder if you’re just making excuses to continue to justify your rather obvious affection for Stardock. But to each his own and whatever floats your boat…
As for the posting, I don’t disagree with you, but the real question is “will Brad listen”? As he himself posted, he doesn’t listen often listen very well - he tends to get defensive very quickly. The only way he’s going to keep the noise level down is to only post about the game itself and not the other external bullshit. So long as he’s taking shots at other people and trying to play some sort of martyr card, he’s going to get a lot of noise from both his fans and his detractors.
Sorry JM, we’ll disagree on that. I don’t see much of a difference between the actions of attack dog Matt and some of the rabid fanboys who flock to the defense of Stardock at every turn. Both groups are well into Idiotland and Brad posting about it is just going to inflame the situation. I think he’s playing a bit of a martyr card for that very reason. It’s poor form for him to do so.
So what if Matt has a “concerted campaign” against Stardock? He’s allowed to - it’s a free country. If he posts a negative review at Amazon on the book, it’s just going to even out the positive fanboy reviews. Is he being any more of a dick about the plus size thing than the Stardock employee who publicly claimed that all the bad reviews were by Angie and Company? If he slams the game on Metacritic, is that any worse than those who posted reviews giving the game a bullshit “10” on the day of release?
I’m not saying Matt is right. Goodness knows I’m not defending him. I’m saying both sides are FUBAR (including the actions of BW).
Alstein
4972
Quite honestly, I’ve not been impressed with the way Brad has handled things so far. That said, I don’t care about the drama as long as I get a good game in the end. I gave him money to make a good PC game eventually, not write a book.
As for why I preordered despite expecting low at launch- Stardock’s track record of improvement with GC1 and GC2. I figured the game would be flawed fun at launch, then get better. As long as Stardock delivers in the end, I’m ok with it. Plus Stardock’s one of the only companies I know that makes AI and making single-player tough but fair a priority, and that’s a big issue with me. I also thought Elemental was very ambitious, and so it would take lots of time to get the gameplay right (I was right on that one).
Also, SD business model relies on pre-orders to determine budget, so not pre-ordering= less likely the game gets budget. I’m doing decently for myself professionally right now, so I shouldn’t be a free rider like I had to be in the past.
My expectation for Elemental is that it ends up a more fun game to play Single-Player, then Civ V when the patching and expanding for both is all said and done. I have a real bad feeling on Civ V personally that it’s not going to get supported all that well.
If Elemental fails to improve, it will take a lot for them to win me back as a fan. Their track record tells me they’ll do everything they can though, so I’ll give them time and patience, like I expected to need.
JM1
4973
Well, we’re definitely going to have to disagree on that point.
If he posts a negative review at Amazon on the book, it’s just going to even out the positive fanboy reviews. Is he being any more of a dick about the plus size thing than the Stardock employee who publicly claimed that all the bad reviews were by Angie and Company?
Given that Matt’s been exposed as someone who’s willing to create alt accounts to pretend to be someone else whilst slating Brad & co, and that the other major person joining in the attacks on the Amazon thread is a QT3 member…
Matt wasn’t posting negative reviews. He was making personal attacks on people posting positive reviews. There’s a big difference there!
I’m not saying Matt is right. Goodness knows I’m not defending him. I’m saying both sides are FUBAR (including the actions of BW).
This particular argument started from Brad’s comment about stalkers from QT3. Unfortunately for us, it would appear that his comment has some truth to it.
Where on earth did that come from? Or why do you think that Civ5 would need a lot of support in the first place? Hands-on reports are all enthusiastic.
That’s fine Alstein, but that also shows that you have some sort of emotional investment with Stardock. You seem to feel somewhat obligated to fund the development of the game - hence your “free rider” comment. I sincerely wonder if you feel like that with any other publisher. Personally, I don’t feel that way about any publisher. I’m not an investor, I’m a customer. As much as I like Firaxis games (been playing Sid Meier’s stuff since the 80s), I don’t feel in any way that I need to fund their development. I’m not suggesting that your emotional ties to Stardock are in any way wrong, but I think most customers aren’t going to be as forgiving since they don’t have that same emotional attachment. Simply put, yours is not typical buying behavior.
I sincerely dislike anyone that releases a half-baked product to the marketplace with the expectation that they can patch it later. It’s a poor business practice amnd shows disdain for the customer base. Patching a product is usually simply righting a wrong. Now Stardock does have a great track record of patching up their games so you should be able to count on that. That’s a good thing, but it doesn’t excuse the state of the game at launch.
Since you edited after I quoted you, why would you think that Civ V won’t be adequately supported or all that much fun? Civ IV was supported quite well and you’d find yourself in a small minority if you don’t think it’s one of the best TBS games in the past 10 years (or perhaps of all time). So where’s your basis for thinking that?
I certainly can’t tie back ever single poor review to a QT3 member, so I’d like to know how you can. Maybe you can ID folks there better than I can.
When a Stardock employee publicly (and falsely it seems) accuses Angie of making shit up, that’s a personal attack. That statement was almost verbatim then posted as a response to her review. I fail to see any difference whatsoever.
Well, who else then is a “stalker” since he used the plural version of the term? Matt’s not part of Qt3 anymore, so who here qualifies?
JM1
4977
Matt’s still posting on QT3 as The Punch Line, presumably after a final warning from Tom. John Reynolds also joined in the pile-on on Amazon. Please note that when I say “attacks” I don’t mean negative reviews, I mean the stuff that’s about anything except the book.
I’m not going to defend what the Stardock employee said - I took him to task on the Stardock thread about it. It just doesn’t change the fact that Brad’s comment wasn’t exactly wrong.
I’m not saying it was wrong, JM. But it certainly wasn’t constructive or necessary. It’s just going to fan the flames at a time where it’s in Stardock’s best interest to quiet things down. And you see what I mean about personal attacks on both sides. I’d agree that Matt’s more wrong, but that doesn’t change my opinion that both sides are acting poorly.
The Punch Line is still here? I haven’t seen any posts in the last few days and search doesn’t show anything since 9/3. Weird. If he is allowed to post, I wonder why Tom just didn’t un-ban the Matt Gallant user ID?
JM1
4979
AFAIK Tom just publicly flagged it a Matt G alt account (put a title under the name). His posts continued after Tom’s reveal.
Tyjenks
4980
I just do not see this as the “best thread ever at Qt3”. Whether viewed as a can’t look away trainwreck or not I, honestly, wish it had never happened at this point. To each his/her own. :)
