5401

FWIW, I have two (2) retail copies.
New, the game was $39.99 (although I got each of them on sale).

5402

Who’s the stud who suggested this design change nearly a month ago? :-D

5403

I didn’t play either game, so can someone explain how this differs from Empire: Total War? I casually followed both disasters to keep an eye on when to jump back in and pick up the games. Everyone swore off Creative Assembly, then a few returned for Napoleon, but people seem to be taking it more personally here. Is it more broken in all aspects, rather than “merely” the late game problems, technical issues, and broken features Empire had? Just curious.

5404

None of the bits work together and they’ve never been actively designed to. I think that’s the major sticking point.

5405

A lot of people seem to love Empire: Total War. Hell, the critics gave it great reviews. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/empire-total-war All the really vocal criticism of that game doesn’t seem to have bled into the general consensus.

On the flipside, there really aren’t many fans of Elemental right now.

5406

I didn’t play either game, so can someone explain how this differs from Empire: Total War? I casually followed both disasters to keep an eye on when to jump back in and pick up the games. Everyone swore off Creative Assembly, then a few returned for Napoleon, but people seem to be taking it more personally here. Is it more broken in all aspects, rather than late game problems and technical issues Empire had? Just curious.

The separate game systems just don’t work together and there’s massive balance problems. I don’t mean balance in terms of some race is better than the other (that’s almost impossible, since they’re all very generic and similar to each other), I mean stuff like magic not scaling well late into the game, champions being next to pointless because a group of villagers with clubs are far more effective, and the price of hats.

The lack of those components not really working spreads like a virus through the rest of the game. If Champions are anemic and near pointless, what is the purpose of researching techs to enable you to recruit higher level heroes? Or the whole dynasty system and children? If Magic is so boring an poorly balanced late game, what’s the purpose of the Sorcery tree, or arcane research, or…

Blah, tl;dr version is Elemental: War of Magic is a game where War is won by gathering mobs of guys with clubs and the Magic is about as exciting as watching cows copulate.

5407

Don’t knock it 'till you’ve tried it. That is an insult to cows everywhere.

5408

“Clearly, one lesson to be learned here is that you can’t just pick and choose systems and throw them together. You have to integrate the two together seamlessly.”

Yeah, another lesson to be learned is that, usually, this integration is done before you sell the game.

That is just an… amazing quote.

5409

It’s the fact that when you say and talk big, and don’t deliver, people really want to slam you for it.

That said, I’m confident things will get fixed. A lot moreso then I ever would be with CA.

On top of that, big companies often get better reviews, it’s the nature of the beast. SD doesn’t have the budget for payola.

The systems in this game are a mess right now, but if they can patch everything together, the fusion will be awesome.

5410

From what I recollect, there were no major problems RUNNING Empire: Total War, and like Telefrog said, the critics even game the game rave reviews.
I’m not a Total War player, but I’d say that in E:TW’s case, it really was more of a collection of mostly smallish bugs/annoyances - most of which CA was known for from the previous games - whereas the overall game at least kinda worked and showed off it’s production values.

Elemental appearently “kinda works” in the same sense new releases of Dwarf Fortress “kinda work”, you can play and have lots of fun if you’re willing to work around a loooooong list of things that are broken, don’t work as intended or make the game explode.
Except Elemental has (or at least had) heaps of technical issues on top and they didn’t give it away as a free alpha version.

Edit: As it seems, I stand corrected by Razgon. As I wrote, I’m not a Total War player.

rezaf

5411

well, Empire wouldnt even get past the first loading screen for many people, and it crashed constantly so yeah…the comparison is apt actually.

5412

Wasn’t the AI broken? I was told that the AI couldn’t even figure out how to load troops onto ships.

5413

Yeah, the AI was kind of broken, and it wasn’t only the problems with the boats. In fact, it was admitted by CA later (they explained how the various AI subsystems never collaborated as they should, they didn’t priorizate well between the needs of each one, so the final result it was a schizophrenic AI), so saying there weren’t major problems is a bit of strecth. Apart from that, it had serious pathfinding problems in sieges, and it was very prone to crashes in the first versions.

5414

Actually, in the same page you can see the difference between the professional reviews (90) and the general consensus of the users (average user review score of 67). Professional reviews of strategy games are usually shallow as they don’t have time to really play and exploit fully the game (which is when you can notice the problems), and that’s if you are lucky and they assign a game journalist who understand the genre. Apart from that, Total War games usually have inflated scores thanks to being one of the few strategy games with AAA production values, they have usually a spectacular, lavish presentation and graphics, that added to the big scope (which helps having a positive in the usual cross check listing of game reviewers), it makes a game who usually gets really high score in magazines and sites, even if the game have problems deep in his design or the AI really can’t win.

5415

An apple a day ,keep the doctor away. Some items in game, you will upgrade.

Enjoy yourselves in your life! worldofgame.net/4.shtml

5416

Well, they (and only they) can be used to pick up the free cash and resources lying around and to enter the adventure locations. No use in fights, tough.

If Magic is so boring and poorly balanced late game, what’s the purpose of the Sorcery tree, or arcane research, or…

Maybe to get the magic win or the powerful landscaping spells?

Not everything must only be about winning in the most efficient way. Some things can be about flavour and diversity. Of course it would be much much better if they were balanced at the same time but there is currently still some utility in even those systems.

I’m finishing my first normal map, just started a major war and I’m having lots of fun despite all the known problems. There are still many systems I’ve only sampled, adventuring for example. I’ve already gotten more than my money’s worth judging by the current single player game length standards. It could have been a lot better but it was still worth it for me.

It’ll be very interesting to see where this game goes and ends up in. It’s fun to be along for the ride amidst all the tumult and drama. You’re not being all you can be (in gaming) if you’re not personally involved in the rage du jour!

5417

Hasn’t CA’s AI always been broken?

I mean, my first battle in medieval I involved a bunch of enemy units walking back and forth in front of my pure-archer army.

5418

Rome and Medieval 2 was pretty good in my opinion - at least it was good enough to beat me a few times ;-) That said, I find Empire’s launch and the first 6 months horrible. To this day the text ingame is unreadable to me( and others according to their forums), but they wont(can’t?) fix it.

Elemental will hopefully not go down the same road, but will be playable and fun in a few months time. (A weak attempt to move back on topic, I know :-D )

5419

I wouldn’t brag about having suggested the initiv sequence thing, Mysterio. Not just because Brad himself suggested it way back in May, but because it’s one of those “strokes of unbrilliance” kind of ideas that destroys the meaning of positioning and terrain, while auto-over-emphasising the importance of ranged attacks.

Eh… That sounded downright mean. Sorry, it isn’t meant that way at all. I’m just so very terribly disappointed Brad seemingly can’t decide if he wants to go HoMM-like or wargame-lite, and demonstrably doesn’t have a f’ing clue how to do either.

Yes. M2TWs AI is arguably worse than Elemental’s. It just lacks the quick & easy way to kill itself that Elemental offers.

5420

Sure, I enjoyed them. Their AI was hopeless, though. I had tactical battles in Rome up to very hard and strategic up to hard, because the AI only presented a challenge when it was given overwhelming numbers and combat bonuses.