5761

-Everyone, myself included, thought Civ5 would be the last nail in Elemental’s coffin. Then Civ5 experienced a massive backlash.

-Glowingly reviewed? Of course it will be. I can promise you that Tom will review it well (assuming it’s not buggy, and if it is, he’ll dodge the bullet like he did with Elemental 1.0). Probably Troy too, though he’ll remain a little more objective.

The big sites will throw it an 8-and-change and follow this pattern:

-Paragraphs 1-2: Elemental had a “rough” launch.
-Paragraph 3: Brad is a saint.
-Paragraphs 4-Penultimate: Feature list + why the expansion has redeemed Elemental.
-Final Paragraph: Stardock proved it’s still in the game, even brighter future ahead, blah blah.

Everyone wants Elemental to succeed. I think a bunch of reviewers will be hurrying to prop up the game again once the objective flaws (bugs) are gone.

EDIT:

Civ5 is doing very well. It’s also very popular, and apparently well-liked. But from what I’ve seen amongst my friends and on the forums (not just Qt3), the trend is to love it and leave it. Win Conquest, win Cultural, maybe win Science or UN, play 50-100 turns of some kind of personal challenge (like One-City Aztec cultural victory or something) and forget about it. The more critical/cynical/experienced gamers trash it after they get tired, everyone else just moves on to whatever else they were playing.

I really like the game and think it’s well-designed, even if the AI is meh. However, while Civ5 definitely has the “one more turn feeling,” it quickly comes to lack the “one more game” feeling.

Again, that’s just what I’ve personally noticed. I’m just throwing down my theories on how the future of Elemental is going to play out. When/If I’m wrong, Adree will post some flavor of “fail” picture while quoting this post and everyone else is welcome to call me a dumbass. I’ll probably lead the charge, in fact.

5762

You’re pretty much spot-on. JJ needs a little Civ V education because the game is currently ruling the TBS space in gaming. And the 20-40 hour thing he just pulled out of his ass.

I agree that the first expansion (patch) is not likely to be reviewed because it’s not a product for sale. You might see a “revisit” article or two out there, but the chances of widespread reviews seem pretty remote. And there’s a real risk with either of the two planned expansions that if they are reviewed and seen as nothing more than a glorified patch to fix issues in the core game, they run the possibility of getting pretty beaten up in the review. This really holds true for the 2nd expansion, since they are planning on charging (some) customers for it.

5763

No, there won’t be. Games are only reviewed once, almost always at release. Sites hardly ever revisit games. The expansions will do nothing for Elemental’s review/metacritic scores. You are engaging in an incredible amount of wishful thinking.

5764

cf - SimCity Socities

PS - which is now a very fun game!

5765

Man, what world do you live in?

5766

James: copy and save all the posts above mine. I think you might very well be right. If you turn out to be, you know what to do.

5767

What massive backlash? What the hell are you talking about?

Who is everyone who wants Elemental to succeed? Good reviewers don’t have a vested interest in seeing a game succeed or fail. While you’ll find the occasional fanboy review out there, most reviewers do have a modicum of integrity and thus would laugh at your above cookie-cutter review. I don’t think there’s a massive love-fest out there for Stardock anymore. They lost that market advantage by releasing Elemental in such sad shape and by their awful PR response in the weeks afterward. If anything, the next reviews are much less likely to get the benefit of the doubt from reviewers. For example, see the reviews on Napoleon:TW versus Empire:TW. Napoleon is by far a superior product, yet it only got an 81 at Metacritic because Creative Assembly burned their goodwill when they released the buggy Empire:TW (which scored better with reviews but really was savaged by the gaming public…unlike Civ V).

Again, “expansion” 1 (patch!) isn’t likely to even be officially reviewed because it’s not even a product for sale. So the reviews you do see are likely to be by the fanboy crowd but will be fairly inconsequential. Expansion 2 will get reviewed since it will be for sale. If it’s seen as a glorified patch for sale, it will get savaged. If it brings the game to mediocrity, then it’ll get mediocre reviews. If it makes the game good, then it’ll get good reviews. In other words, it’ll get what it deserves and nothing more or nothing less.

5768

A covert dig at Tom Chick?

5769

Not intentionally, but if the shoe fits…

5770

taps nose

5771

James Johnson is stupid, you heard it here first.

5772

Elemental fanboys jump to defend their love interest. Who would have guessed that?

Stardock had quite a few fans here prior to Elemental. They produced a fundamentally broken game, and are now subject a lot of well-deserved skepticism. I don’t give a fuck what fantasy forum likes Elemental more than Civ 5, it’s not this one. Go there if you want to dry hump each other’s legs for Elemental’s glory to the exclusion of reality.

5773

I’m talking about a boxed, on the shelf expansion. Not one of Brad’s patch-spansions. Think Dark Avatar.

Further, I’m no fanboy. I disliked GalCiv. I havent touched Elemental since the 0-day patch. And I’m definitely not saying the expansion will be good. I’m just proposing it’ll probably be well-reviewed, one way or another.

5774

This is all just anecdotal rubbish so I’m not arguing that this is conclusive (or even indicative of the playerbase at large), but I have a group of six friends who love TBS games, especially the Civ series. Not a single one is still playing the game, they’ve all moved on to something else. Some disliked it, some thought it was mediocre, some liked it but got bored quickly.

So yea, 20-40 hours is probably pulled out of his ass, but it’s exactly what I see amongst my group of friends as well.

5775

Do you have a keg inside your head?

5776

I’m afraid I’m seeing the same thing among the people I know. Not many are that into the game anymore - it certainly hadnt had the impact I thought a new Civ game would generate

5777

Oh, I got the 20-40 figure from the range of my friends’ total time played on steam. So yeah, still close to pulling it out of my ass, but like I said, it’s just anecdote.

5778

Yea, sounds like Sid Meier really fucked this one up. Until he comes here, apologizes and tell us how he plans to make amends I’m not buying any more of his products.

5779

Yeah that’s exactly the point he was making, well done.

OR it might just be that in the context of Elemental’s expansion and future life, Civ 5 having a few issues with retaining people beyond the initial playthrough(s) is important.

It’s not like the Civ5 thread on here doesn’t detail a lot of issues.

5780

Yes, Civ 5’s issues are totally going to drive people back to Elemental. That sounds logical.