Elemental all-purpose thread

[Alstein]

They’ve said they’re going to put out a demo after 1.1

[Paulus]

Thanks guys. Maybe I’ll give it a look again around Christmas.

Skinner,

As Spyndel said, you might want to wait longer than that. Derek Paxton doesn’t even start at Stardock until Nov. 1. It might be mid next year before the game is radically different (if it ever is).

[Cal]

Next spring might be a better target, after the first real, substantial expansion. Going by Gal Civ 2 precedent, anyway.

Paid or free X-pack? No way in hell am i paying to fix this mess, im annoyed enough i pre-ordered it thinking it would be a normal Stardock game. Learnt my lesson there :(

[Spyndel]

Paid or free X-pack? No way in hell am i paying to fix this mess, im annoyed enough i pre-ordered it thinking it would be a normal Stardock game. Learnt my lesson there :(

They say they are giving the first expansion pack (next year) away for free to owners of the game. I don’t know if if that means owners before such and such date, or not.

In my opinion though, it probably wont be until at least next year, and after at least one or two official expansions before the game becomes fundamentally better than it is now. Until then, improvements are likely to be incremental and minor. If you’re a member of the Kael fanclub, whatever influence he has probably wont be substantially felt until that expansion.

Gal Civ 2 didn’t really shine until its second paid expansion, and it was in significantly better shape.

[KevinC]

First expansion is free to all players. Second expansion is free for those who owned it prior to a certain time, I can’t remember if it’s 1.09 or 1.1. I think 1.1.

Really, Stardock screwed up here but they’re going above and beyond what other companies would do to make things right with their customers. I’m hoping they’ll be able to hammer Elemental into shape, but we’ll see.

[Spyndel]

First expansion is free to all players. Second expansion is free for those who owned it prior to a certain time, I can’t remember if it’s 1.09 or 1.1. I think 1.1.

V 1.09 is out now. It’s not really an expansion. 1.1 is due next month, but also not really an expansion. The first real (formerly paid) expansion is due in the first part of next year, and Brad has said it will be given for free to people who “currently own the game”.

[edit] Corrected.

[arakyd]

Really, Stardock screwed up here but they’re going above and beyond what other companies would do to make things right with their customers.

The best way to make things right with customers is not to ask them to pay for a product that is both crappy and broken in the first place. That is what most “other companies” do. Like for example Illwinter Game Design, which, unlike Stardock, is actually an indie with one developer and one artist, yet still managed to:
[ol]
[li]Release a fantastic game, arguably the best and deepest in the history of the genre, with working multiplayer and without crippling bugs.
[/li][li]Document it thoroughly with a fantastic manual.
[/li][li]Provide a great deal of support for modding.
[/li][li]Continue releasing bugfixes and substantial content patches, all free, for four years and counting.
[/li][/ol]
This is above average customer service, but there are a lot of companies at or around this level or even better. You are not giving “other companies” enough credit. Stardock is below average, and does not deserve the internet reputation they have, or the attention they get. They are much better at marketing and self-promotion than at actually making good games or doing right by their customers.

[Spyndel]

The best way to make things right with customers is not to ask them to pay for a product that is both crappy and broken in the first place. That is what most “other companies” do. Like for example Illwinter Game Design, which, unlike Stardock, is actually an indie with one developer and one artist, yet still managed to:
[ol]
[li]Release a fantastic game, arguably the best and deepest in the history of the genre, with working multiplayer and without crippling bugs.[/li][li]Document it thoroughly with a fantastic manual.[/li][li]Provide a great deal of support for modding.[/li][li]Continue releasing bugfixes and substantial content patches, all free, for four years and counting.[/li][/ol]
This is above average customer service, but there are a lot of companies at or around this level or even better. You are not giving “other companies” enough credit. Stardock is below average, and does not deserve the internet reputation they have, or the attention they get. They are much better at marketing and self-promotion than at actually making good games or doing right by their customers.

I agree that Dom3 is an exceptional example, but in all fairness, all those points apply simultaneously to…what…less than 1% of modern games being released? Whatever your feelings on Elemental, Stardock is far better at those points than the vast majority of developers. They just happened to blow point #1 … (#2 doesn’t count…the people who extensively document their games on release, let alone kill the trees for a substantial manual anymore are so rare as to be a statistical anomaly).

[Alstein]

The reason Stardock still has a chance, and has kept their hardcore fanboy base despite kicking the fans in the teeth with this launch, is because of their prior history of supporting those four points. Any other mid-major development who put out a game as flawed as Elemental was at launch would have been buried.

In a way, seeing how Elemental does will be an interesting gauge on the value of prior goodwill and its usefulness to a company.

Cal, if you bought Elemental before 10/1 I believe, you get 2nd XP free.

[KevinC]

V 1.09 is out now. It’s not really an expansion. 1.1 is due next month, but also not really an expansion. The first real (formerly paid) expansion is due in the first part of next year, and Brad has said it will be given for free to people who “currently own the game”.

[edit] Corrected.

That’s not what I was saying. I was saying that expansion #2 is free to people who buy Elemental before a certain point, but I don’t remember if 1.09 was the cutoff, or 1.1 was the cutoff (to get the 2nd expansion for free).

[Dan_Theman]

Cal, if you bought Elemental before 10/1 I believe, you get 2nd XP free.

To clarify, the deadline for that deal is October 31st.

So someone can still buy the game now and get both for free.

[Cal]

To clarify, the deadline for that deal is October 31st.

So someone can still buy the game now and get both for free.

Cheers, i pre-ordered so im okay, will wait till the first hits and re-install.

[Dan_Theman]

Cheers, i pre-ordered so im okay, will wait till the first hits and re-install.

My plan, exactly :)

[marxeil]

Exactly. Install the game on February as originally planned ;)

[Jarmo]

Here’s a new screenshot and some info from the head honcho.

This is a partial screenshot (right side of my screen) of some of the UI updates we’re doing.

For those of you who want to try v1.1 in beta, we plan to put out the first beta in about a week.

Until the end of THIS MONTH (October 31), anyone who purchase Elemental: War of Magic, will get the first two expansions for the game for free (as well as our normal long-term support for the game itself).

[Dan_Theman]

I actually like what they’re doing with the UI and added stuff. Here’s hoping it winds up being as good of a game as we all wished for.

[Jarmo]

Gaming Nexus interviews Paxton.

This sounds particularly promising:

Although I encourage a lot of feedback and ideas, I’m also very hesitant to add good ideas, they have to be great (scope creep being a huge risk in game design). Instead I want more elegant ideas, I’m more interested tightening a design than adding to it.

[Jarmo]

Elemental status updates from Wardell:

• Paxton started at Stardock November 1st.

I’m not disappearing entirely but after v1.1, Derek Paxton (Kael) will be calling the shots on the day to day on the game and design implementation (at Stardock, the Project Manager aka Producer is the god of the game). I’ll be returning to my traditional role at Stardock on our games (AI and high level design input).

• Elemental sold more units at retail and direct in October than in September.
• There are now more people working on Elemental than there were during development.
• The two expansion packs for everyone who bought Elemental before the end of October (and downloaded an update from Impulse which is said to be the only way they know that you’re eligible) is now over.

everyone who buys as of November 1st 2010 still gets the first expansion pack we’re working on for free. These expansion packs are more akin to GalCiv II level expansions (they’re not micro expansions).

[Telefrog]

• Elemental sold more units at retail and direct in October than in September.

I feel bad for those people. I bet many of them didn’t know what they were getting into.

[karnisov]

Stardock is below average, and does not deserve the internet reputation they have, or the attention they get. They are much better at marketing and self-promotion than at actually making good games or doing right by their customers.

speaking in general terms, i’ve never really understood how stardock got such a rabid fan (boy) base. perhaps it has alot to do with their drm stance. galciv1 was mediocre, galciv2 was ok after a few expansions but still didn’t have all the features Moo2 did at release, and elemental was a flaming plane crash. they are 1 for 3 so far.