Nesrie
6281
You know, I was in the Stardock camp until I saw Brad claim, again, that the game was finished at release within the last month basicaly in response to a GBOR claim that it wasn’t. The combination might be fine, but the spin coming out of that camp is just unacceptable. If that game was finished day 1, well then finished Stardock games aren’t something to be excited about.
Sometimes it’s not about the mindset, sometimes (most of the times!) it’s about much more mundane things, like constraints in people, money and time. Usually money, as it’s the things that buys people and time.
Thing is, you don’t need to be in anyone’s camp to enjoy a good game (which Elemental certainly wasn’t at release). See how the buzz for the new game is after release and determine if it’s worth downloading (due to your complaints about the state of the original game at release, I’m assuming you have Elemental and therefore you’re getting this for free).
DeepT
6284
Will this make it into the spiritual successor to MoM? or should I give up on that as a broken dream that will never happen?
ShivaX
6285
Give up on it, that way if it somehow ever does happen you can dance in the streets. Considering thats pretty unlikely, at least you wont be disappointed over and over again.
Don’t judge any game as the spiritual successor to any great game. That’s just a recipe for disappointment.
If it happens, it will be when you least expect it.
Honestly, I’m cautious- I know Stardock has greatness in them, but I now also know they have the Elemental launch in them as well, so it’s wait and see. At least it’s free for me.
Paper
6287
I have just now heard of this game. Is it a 4x like MoM? What exactly is unfinished about it?
We don’t need a successor to MOM. It’s still fun to play as it is!
It wasn’t technically unfinished, it just wasn’t very fun when it came out and it also had some software problems. It has become substantially better, although I still think it’s a bit too lacking of … something - flavor? Character? I honestly can’t quite put a finger on it, except to say that the game just doesn’t compel me to keep on going with that “just one more turn” kind of fun that I look for.
Stardock’s customer report was actually pretty blunt and I believe fairly accurate with their internal criticism of the game, and it at least seems that they know the areas to improve to get the concept where they want it to be. Whether that can and will be acheived is something that only time will tell.
In the meanwhile, Elemental as it stands now isn’t bad and has some nice parts to it, but there are simply better games out there (imho). It is still being improved, although it may not be until Fallen Enchantress that we get to see all the parts as they (hopefully) should be.
That’s my thinking too. I’m a big Stardock fan. Well, was a big fan I guess, but the Elemental release soured me. I don’t know that I’d preorder a Stardock game again, but I’m not writing them off given they had good history before Elemental and I like that Brad’s hired Jon and Derek to address the weaknesses Elemental brought to light so clearly and painfully.
I’d boil it down to this: If you haven’t bought Elemental yet, then don’t do it until Fallen Enchantress releases. Only the early adopters like me will get FA for free anyway, so you may as well wait.
KevinC
6292
Yea, no use rushing at this point. Also, if you’re into playing these games multiplayer with your friends, stay away. It’s a stinker, in that regard.
There was no coherent underlying design at release, and that unfortunately remains the case. Elemental in its current form is a collection of cool-sounding fantasy 4x features that don’t cohere into a conceptual whole. I really want to like it, but as of my last attempt to play it a week ago, I still find it tedious, unfun, and completely lacking the sense of wonder you’d want from a game set in a fantasy world.
That blurb for Fallen Enchantress makes it pretty clear that Stardock agrees the game as released was a mess, despite whatever spin Brad tries to put on it. When something that was originally supposed to be an expansion now “shares some art assets with War of Magic but little else,” and has undergone a complete redesign of the “combat systems, tactical combat systems, character creation, economic system, game mechanics, etc.” it’s hard to see it as anything other than an admission that your game was unfun and broken out of the gate.
There’s a lot of potential there, and no place go but up.
There’s no need to speculate on that, Stardock’s report spells it out in the preceding paragraphs:
Unfortunately, as discussed above, War of Magic was a disappointment to Stardock and its fans in a number of areas and exposed some deep-seated problems with the games unit.
While War of Magic has subsequently been greatly improved, Stardock is not convinced that this title, with a 55 metacritic average, can redeem itself. Therefore, rather than tie new Designer/Project Manager Derek Paxton to the previously planned expansions of War of Magic, it was decided to have Derek and his team focus on the creation of Elemental: Fallen Enchantress, a stand alone expansion which will not require users to purchase War of Magic.
(Users who purchased War of Magic this past year will receive Fallen Enchantress for free; Stardock will also provide steep discounts to anyone who purchases War of Magic prior to the release of Fallen Enchantress. We are also committed to enhancing War of Magic on its own path for those users who prefer its game mechanics.)
Paper
6295
Pertinent Question - If one hasn’t played any material upon the expansion’s release. How well can one learn the game’s mechanics? Must one learn two sets of mechanics? Pre-expansion and expansion?
KevinC
6296
It’s not really an expansion, it’s a separate game. Work/improvement will continue on with Elemental: War of Magic separately.
From everything they’ve said, there’s precious little but art assets shared between the two. I don’t think there will be many similarities other than they’re both turn-based fantasy games in the same setting.
Paper
6297
Why must the first game be maintained if it obviously is meant to be inferior?
It’s not meant to be inferior, much as Terminator was not meant to be inferior to T2. Stardock wants to make the original as good of a game as they can reasonably manage.
Terminator is not inferior to T2.
There was no coherent underlying design at release, and that unfortunately remains the case. Elemental in its current form is a collection of cool-sounding fantasy 4x features that don’t cohere into a conceptual whole. I really want to like it, but as of my last attempt to play it a week ago, I still find it tedious, unfun, and completely lacking the sense of wonder you’d want from a game set in a fantasy world.
I agree with this, pretty much. About the only feeling I get when I try to play Elemental is a desire to load up either Master of Magic, Age of Wonders:SM, or HOMM3.
