Alstein
6501
I think Tyjenks got it right. I do notice a large difference in reactions between those who were there earlier, and those who didn’t notice Stardock until later GCII/Elemental days. The earlier folks tend to take Brad at his world on Impulse (that it wasn’t what he wanted to do), whereas the later group sees conspiracy theories. Stardock’s privately owned so we don’t know the truth whatsoever, but I believe Brad, especially since Gamestop bought it when they had something- they obviously have a real plan.
Also, a lot of PC gaming folks are so pro-Steam that they view Brad as the enemy no matter what. (not so much here, but other places) Brad being a conservative in an industry where many of the consumers are angry liberals (and I’m one myself) doesn’t help matters- especially when people claim (falsely) he’s a Tea Partier on top of that (and I do disagree with Brad on whether politics should affect sales- I wouldn’t support Koch Industries Games division even if they made the next Kohan and promised a free pony with pre-order)
I mean, is Brad really the Derek Smart clone lots of people are trying to make him out as? Ultimately, in the end, damage was done , but not to the point where results can’t turn it around. If FE ends up a great game, people will have much shorter memories. That said, he has said some things that didn’t need to be said, whether right or not, but criticism on that does not mean that I think he’s a bad person/ horrible game designer.
New journal entry on the tech system in Fallen Enchantress.
I liked the idea of technology being rediscovered in WoM, where you selected the tech after reaching a beakthrough, but the new system looks more functional and less bloated.
Also, there was a post that said patch 1.2 will be released this week. I think I’ll wait until 1.3, but if anyone plays 1.2, please report back :)
I suppose I should wait for 1.2 before buying the game?
Didn’t know it was out (as I haven’t been following Stardock as closely as I should, lately) but read a lot of negative things about it when I found out about it, so figured I’d wait for ‘stuff’ to be fixed. If you have it, let us know how 1.2 turns out ;)
1.2 isn’t going to improve the gameplay. It’s just engine fiixes for the most part. The 1.3 beta is supposed to be Brad’s ideas and changes, which I’m interested in seeing. I think that’s supposed to start pretty quickly after 1.2 is out.
At this point I’d say wait for the expansion, see the reviews/impressions on here (which I suspect will be quite positive from what I’ve seen so far), then decide from there. From what they’ve been saying the beta will be shorter then what they typically do, as the game will be mostly finished by the time they do an open beta.
The tech system in WoM just didn’t work due to the scaling, and pretty much forced beelining. There’s a reason people haven’t reinvented the wheel on tech trees.
Jag
6507
Is Elemental changing enough to be worth reinstalling? Are the mechanics changing significantly? If the game becomes more like FE, I may be willing to give it another chance. Sounds like 1.3 is a changing point for the game?
Time will tell, I’ll wait until 1.3 before returning.
The plans for 1.3 can be seen here: http://forums.elementalgame.com/406430
I would seriously recommend staying as far away from this game (War of Magic) as possible. Fallen Enchantress, however, is another story.
Blips
6510
Bland game mechanics and content aside, there is little point in putting time into playing the game when the AI cannot even competently provide any sort of danger or challenge.
The key word is bland, for the game being a fantasy based game it sure is dull.
I wonder what it would cost a dev to license a lesser-known fantasy author’s IP.
Take, for example, David Farland’s Runelords novels. While I hated his writing and couldn’t make it through more than a couple of books, I loved the concept: feudalism taken to mystical extremes. Knights were literally imbued with an attribute from a serf: strenght, speed, etc., thereby draining that serf of that attribute.
I figure it would make a great TBS/RTS with serfs as a resource that had to be gathered and protected. The player would have to decide on whether to dedicate that resource to fast knights or strong knights, multiple mediocre knights or a single champion, and so forth.
I’m sure there are a ton of other fantasy novels/settings that could be licensed to create an interesting system and backstory.
Stardock (i.e., Brad) seemed to get over its head and outside its expertise with this game.
I would think a lesser license would have saved a lot of pain and cost, while making for a better game.
rezaf
6513
Why even license an IP?
Master of Magic did just fine just picking random fantasy elements from several sources and creating a nice mix from them.
I was a bit sceptical already back when they announced they weren’t using stock fantasy races but their own deal with the fallen or how they are called.
Still, I’m willing to sit and wait to see what Kael will do with this setting, as flawed as it might be.
rezaf
Lorini
6514
Do you realize how old Master of Magic is and how sales expectations are much higher (and development costs too) now? A cheap license would have helped a lot.
I’m actually glad they didn’t get the license. God what a tragedy that would have been. It’s obvious Brad didn’t get what people liked about it.
rezaf
6516
Mordrak, unless I’m totally mistaken this wasn’t about the MoM license (which I’m also VERY glad they didn’t end up getting - this ain’t no MoM2) but about a fantasy license (as in a universe from books or a RPG or something, an established world somebody else developed) to base the game on.
Lorini, I’m totally with you when you say these days are different and there are higher sales expectations and all, but do you honestly believe a cheap license would have any relevant impact in that context?
I never heard of David Farland, for example, even though I used to be a heavy fantasy reader.
The only thing I could see having a chance of really boosting sales in a meaningful way would be a MAJOR license - in the Elemntal context of having no real races, a Song of Ice and Fire license could have fit - especially with the series now being out and all, I could see that making quite a difference in sales.
But my point about MoM was that it didn’t NEED a license to feel like a true fantasy game. It had all the “classical” stuff, like Noble Wizards and Vile Witch Kings, Orcs and Elves, Skeletons, Zombies and Vampires, Elementals, Angels and Demons, Light vs. Death, Fireball and Heal spells … they managed to put everything in, and then some more.
I know some people say they’re tired of established settings and insist on something “original”, but to me, that’s like saying I want a WW2 movie, but please, no more Nazis or Japanese, no more tanks or submachine guns etc., try something original!
Then again, Elemental as it was released couldn’t have been “saved” by having a more established fantasy setting or a license, so I guess that’s a bit of a pointless discussion.
rezaf
I was proposing the license not as a draw, in and of itself. Rather, a cheap, minor license would be solely to off-load the world creation and creative background off of devs, who frankly aren’t suited to the task. It’s like hiring professional, but not marque, voice talent. You’re just trying to avoid cringe-worthy self-made voiceovers. Here, it’s to avoid a bland backstory.
I specifically mention Farland because I wanted an example of what I would expect to be a very cheap license, rather than what Martin would demand.
rezaf
6518
Fair enough Stepsongrapes, but based on what I’ve seen in licensed games, it seems to also take considerable effort to create meaningful gameplay elements even from an established background - plus it puts certain shackles on the designers. If a setting prominently features dragons, it’s kinda hard too just leave them out because you fail to implement them properly or don’t find a way to properly balance them or whatnot.
But I guess part of Elementals struggles was the entire approach to approach things this way - have certain features in place, and then, in the last 1% of development time, flesh out the specifics based on what features are there and what the AI can be taught to do - as opposed to saying “we need x because our creature/unit/building/etc. y requires it!”.
rezaf
And then some…
Not that I disagree a license to a setting whose creators were more able to exploit the possibilities for variety and the fantastic that a fantasy setting offers would have helped, if the near-total lack of both had been on EWoM’s top 100 list of Stuff That Went Wrong.
It’s just that EWoM’s other issues totally overshadows that stuff. Half the game’s mechanics are so disconnected from the rest that they simply aren’t a part of any gameplay strategies. The rest are so badly paced/wildly imbalanced that the only viable gameplay strategies consists of doing the same thing over and over and over and… until you’ve won. And of course, the AI is so bad it’s barely there at all.
Even the best setting in the world wouldn’t have stopped EWoM from being the second worst 4x I’ve played in a decade. Though of course, it might have made the manual a more interesting read … If there’d been one.
Both MOM and MOO used classic archetypes that let the players build on and imagine story and setting. When a game lets a player naturally imagine a story, it’s much more interesting to me than a hardcoded explicit story.
Kohan suffered from getting away from classic archetypes, I believe. It was a great game but it was weird. It was hard to warm up to its mythos. We get dwarves and elves and the like, but what Kohan used was odd stuff, so odd that I don’t even remember it now.
