Endless Space 2

I’ve been forcing myself to play several games of this (as different races) to really get a full experience with the game, after owning it since early access and firing it up for the odd game here and there. I’ve come away with the conclusion that… I just don’t like it much. I don’t hate it, but I don’t care much for it either.

The good parts are the presentation and the different races, they really did a fantastic job there. Each race is lovingly crafted, each with their own playstyles, story, etc. In that regard, it’s the opposite of something like Stellaris where races are randomized and put together via Lego blocks. Narratively in that way, this game is fantastic.

There’s also some features that I want to like but don’t quite work for me. The combat system falls into this category, because in a 4X I think the idea of hands-off battles that you can still influence with the techs you research, how that ties into the ships/fleets you construct, and the playing of Tactics cards sounds exactly what I want in a game like this. I end up just finding it mostly meh, though, and not as engaging or interesting as I hoped it would be.

Influence/diplomacy are kind of in this boat too. I find there to be a lot of interesting concepts at work but they just don’t quite come together and gel in a way that engages me. I find system as a whole is less than the sum of its parts, unfortunately. There’s Influence and diplomatic pressure and actions like diplomatic embraglios, but they never seem to amount to a whole lot and everything can get immediately trumped by simply going to war. I wish going the diplomatic route was more of an option, instead I feel like I have to have a superior military in all situations, in which case I might as well use it to conquer after investing all that tech and industry in building the baddest fleet in the galaxy.

For Heroes, I like the idea but don’t like their implementation. I kind of hate how every hero has skill trees that are pretty evenly split between planetary bonuses and fleet bonuses. I always have the problem while leveling up that I end up with a bunch of filler choices for governors or fleet commanders just to reach the next tier/ring of abilities. I also don’t like how there are no items you can equip the governors with to improve their capabilities, unlike Endless Legend. In EL, I liked getting access to a particular resource and getting the right tech so that I could equip them with items that increased productivity or gold output in the city they were in charge of. Why did Amplitude get rid of that here? Those things combined makes governor heros feel incomplete to me.

Lastly, there’s the things I actively hate. The bugaboo for me is of course the diplo AI, which is a very common complaint I have with the genre so I’m not singling out ES2 here (it’s better than several of its peers, in fact). Still, this is part of the reason the diplo/influence stuff just didn’t quite work out for me. I think with some more attention on the AI, this could be improved.

I really, really hate all the message spam that happens every turn. Every turn, I get bombarded with pointless diplomatic messages from nearly every race in the game. Some of them don’t even make sense. An example from my current game, I’m allied with the Lumaris. We are currently at war with the Horatio, who I am sieging 2 planets simultaneously with a third fleet running around and blowing up their ships as I see them. The Lumaris don’t appear to be assisting in the war effort in any way, but I chalk that up to the fact that the AI isn’t the greatest. That would all be fine, except EVERY DAMN TURN I get yet another stupid message from the Lumaris AI with a “Wounded” mood about how I’m just not helping the war, that this is when allies need to step up and help. The next turn will be a “Distressed” message that they need help (which I’m doing), followed up by another “Wounded” message the next turn. Repeat this ad infinitum.

It doesn’t stop there, though. Horatio also has to send me an insult or dismissive message every turn. The cravers have to message me either turn with either a threat, a demand for tribute, or an angry message because I didn’t pay tribute. This is also in a loop. Add that in with the United Empire doing the same, the Hissho making threats, the Sophons saying hey what’s up, etc. And every message results in a pop-up coming up after my turn has started I’m and already trying to do something. I have to dismiss this message to get back to the action I was trying to complete, but then the 6-7 additional diplomatic messages described above storm through. Then I get notified about 3 quests, whether they be starting, completed, failed, or nearing their end. That’s followed up by Empire A, B, or C might be nearing one of the victory conditions (although they’re obviously nowhere close). I finally filter and sort through all this crap, tell me one planet with an empty queue to build something… then hit End Turn and repeat the process all over again. Argh!

The above would likely be the kind of UI annoyances that I could look past if I were more engaged in the game, but I’m just not. I can get some enjoyment immersing myself in the theme of a particular race and seeing how their unique mechanics work, but nothing else in the game really grabs me. At least not enough to compensate for the aggravations I have. I don’t come back to start a new game thinking “Ahhh, I’m totally going to try this strategy out this time!”, for whatever reason.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling but I’ve pecked away at this game for a while and only in the past month or so have really hunkered down and sunk enough time into it to really inform my opinion. Unfortunately, my feeling about the game ended up being what it was initially: great theme and race design, fantastic presentation and atmosphere, but with a bag of features that don’t come together to form a compelling game. I invested 80 hours or so according to Steam, so at least at this point I feel like I gave it a decent shot. Again, I don’t hate it by any means, but I think the conclusion I’ve come to that it’s just not for me. It’s a shame, because there’s obviously a lot of creativity that the developers showered on this game.

For what it is worth you are not alone. Some games are more than the sum of their systems. Others, like Endless Space 2, are less than the sum of their systems. ES2 has almost every feature I could want from a 4x space game yet none of them are particularly compelling to me.

This is exactly how I felt when I played it at release. I think I enjoyed Endless Space 1 more because ES2 seems to have more that just gets in the way of enjoyment. It sucks that it’s like this because the things it does well it does really well.

I’ve been intending to try it again since there has been many updates since I’ve played, but now I’m not so sure. I have only tried 2 or so races, so there is more to see - but I’m not sure it’s worth it.

That was an excellent write up Kevin

On the messages: there are some special military locations the AI will mark on the map, asking for your help. The AI thinks you aren’t helping because, I guess, you aren’t responding to those markers. I think they are not displayed very obviously, and this is totally undocumented, but that’s why.

On combat, the problem is balance (and AI). They just haven’t put in the work to tune the system.

But yes, there’s a ton of mistakes in the design (a great example are the the diplomatic demands ultimately avoidable via war) and a lot of gameplay totally undermined by balance. Huge shame.

Hey thanks, I never noticed particular systems getting flagged! And I think you’re right about the issues facing combat.

I’ll still be keeping tabs on this, there are a lot of good pieces in there if they can just polish it up and tie it together better.

Amplitude’s games all have what I think of as asynchronous message delivery. Messages aren’t queued up for you to read at the very beginning of your turn, but rather pop up irregularly after you’ve already started to make your decisions.

I’m not sure why they made that design decision, but it’s an annoyance that’s been there forever. It derails the turn, frustrates the player, and is completely “unrealistic” in a turn-based game. I’d love the counter-opportunity to send crappy messages to the AIs and disrupt their turns.

All players are supposed to be taking their turns simultaneously. That what makes it possible to sometimes warp out of trouble before the AI engages your fleet. I don’t really care for that aspect myself.

I’m happy with simultaneous turns as it can really cut back on the turn times, but Amplitude’s implementation has always been a little messy.

They just premiered two new expansions, coming next week!

Penumbra, for Endless Space 2, and Symbiosis, for Endless Legend.

I just preordered them as a bundle, which you can do for $20.

I love these guys so much, I’m super excited!

Thanks for letting us know.

Thanks for the heads up. I’m not sure if I’ll pick up the ES2 expansion, as I just cannot get into the game despite liking some aspects of it (caveat: great word of mouth in this thread might change that). I might pick up the last two EL2 expansions, though.

Here’s the link to Steam:

The features seem to be Hacking and Invisibility for ships? Not sure how appealing that sounds. Would love to hear some firsthand experiences if anyone picks it up, though.

Not just hacking and stealth for ships: the new faction is confined to a single system that appears empty to the world. They spread their influence out from there. It sounds very unique.

Space ghosts!

For some reason when I read “faction”, I was thinking it was one of those new minor factions that exist.

Steam has a free weekend starting now and the game and bundle is currently 66% off. I’m definitely going to give the free weekend a try (although honestly, it couldn’t have happened at the worst possible time for me).

A new minor faction (Basryxo) has been discovered in Amplitude’s new Play-To-Win promo. Get out there and discover systems to keep the unlocks (added to the game next month) coming!

I love when they do these promos, because they add a lot of free content to their games.

I think this is a better expansion than Supremacy. But it is nowhere near the peak of something like Shifters was for Endless Legend.

The new race is fine, albeit a bit dull. It’s cool and thematic, but not very strong, and replaces colony build queues with hacking mechanics.

The new hacking mechanic is opaque, fiddly and gets a bit dull, but is quite thematic and has some interesting moments.

I won’t disable it, which is what I did for Supremacy. But I do not think it particularly improves the game as a whole.

A new expansion is coming.

This faction will be a complete departure for Amplitude and the 4X genre. Rather than leading a vigorous young civilization reaching out toward the stars, the player will be fighting to restore an ancient, declining faction; this people is dreaming of their past glory and striving to recapture it. They will start out much stronger than other empires, but will have to struggle to stay ahead — or even keep up. Like Rome after the fall, they are full of potential but are held back by the weight of their own culture.

Man, Amplitude are best in class for faction/race lore and conceptual design.

Sounds like Sorceror King but you’re the SK.