Enter the Game Music Thunderdome

I absolutely agree, but also caveat that most movie music is generic and uninspired as well. Especially blockbusters these days, they all blend together into an Inception buzz inspired fugue. The Marvel movies may be very good, but I defy you to listen to a given song and pick the film.

I don’t even watch the Marvel movies themselves. When I think of good movie scores, I think of Williams, Goldsmith, Oldfield, Herrmann, and so on.

Not that many game composers come up to Goldsmith! But Soule has his very fine moments, IMO. As does the Outcast composer (Lenny something, I think?) and the original WoW composer.

Yeah, I heard a piece from the Outcast OST and it made me want to buy the game on GOG just to hear it again, it was so gorgeous. I’ve never played the game itself.

I believe (from an interview somewhere) this is why the Persona songs are mostly in English; the producers didn’t want Japanese lyrics to distract players.

I think one minor item that needs mentioning is that -some- game music is a bit more dynamic, which lends to it being more like a movie score. Granted, some of the programming to do so doesn’t work well. But in some cases it works quite well, driving you as the player, amping up the combat anxiety, and adding large dramatic moments at just the right point. Skyrim is a good example of a game that does that quite well, but there are others.

Part of the issue is that there are a few ways to appreciate music. As I’ve noted elsewhere, I studied music composition in college. Part of my appreciation is the appreciation of craft. I won’t deny the influence of nostalgia, personal taste, or personal experience. But there is an appreciation for the music and its situation in the game that goes beyond those. For example, there are Jeremey Soule’s Elder Scrolls pieces and James Hannigan’s music for Republic: The Revolution or Evil Genius where the intention is totally atmospheric; there are not a lot of particularly cinematic sequences to set, and therefore, the music is largely “musical” in nature. On the other hand, some game music is like movie music in that it supports very particular events. That represents a different set of criteria, but can be appreciated on its own merits. I’m having trouble thinking of a game instance, but I’m reminded of the scene in The Incredibles where Mr. Incredibles tracking device goes off; while it is a dramatic moment, the music backs off at that very moment to build tension rather than slavishly follow the image.

In short, “boring” music for wide application is as interesting to me (a)vocationally as music that accompanied preset images and events in games. It only matters if it’s done well.

A final, somewhat-related not: I grew up around people who, if they had any opinion of Western classical music at all, despised avante-garde, “atonal” music. At some point around the time I finished college, I realized that such people would fail to comment on or even notice such music if it was in a movie. The images helped make sense of the music they otherwise couldn’t interpret. That went a long way to broadening my ears.

That’s an excellent comment. The whole post is excellent, but this last part is so easy to miss.

RE: game music in general, it depends on the game in question. If the music is absent or seems like an afterthought, or in thinky games where I’m going to be staring at similar screens for a long time, I’ll pipe in my own. But for games that are about the atmosphere, experience, story, and the music is carefully designed to be a part of that, I’d never dream of turning it off.

As others have mentioned, it can be hard to do work requiring serious concentration while listening to anything with prominent, understandable vocals, so this is my main use of game music outside of actually playing them. In particular, solo piano albums have been my go-to studying music since college.

Anyway, it looks like doing a sequel free-for-all 'Dome has opened up a bit of a lead in voting over the Themed option since last week, when they were tied. I’ll go ahead with that, and save the themes for next time around.

I’ll open nominations later in the week. Let me know if there is any feedback or suggestions on the process. My thoughts are to:

  • Have registration take place in a shared Google Sheet rather than pasted into the thread. They need to get compiled to put into the bracket anyway, so might as well cut out the middleman.
  • I’d like to get the total runtime down to around a month, rather than the 3+ that this one took. My main thought here is to do a more aggressive group stage, and start the single-elimination bracket at 32 entries rather than 64.
  • Use polls all the way through.

Any thoughts or other suggestions?

Does that mean a total field size of 32?

Can you explain how you select nominees if there are more than you need? Go down the list of all people who submitted and take their first one, then take the second one from as many as there is room for, and so on?

This time around, every day four songs were on the docket and exactly two advanced. In the group stage it could be any two of those four, and in the elimination stage there were two separate matches, which each had one winner. My thought is to keep the elimination stage the same, but change the group stage to be 1-of-4 advances, or 2-of-6 advance, or similar.

So if there are 100 total entries, they’d be randomly divided into 32 groups of 3 or 4, we’d all vote on that group, and 1 would advance from each group.

The exact numbers could be played with, and I’m definitely not set on that idea if people have other ideas.

Is there a way to hide individual votes until a particular vote is closed?

I’m a bit confused. I thought every contest last time was direct elimination? I mean, there wasn’t any round robin mechanism going on, was there?

I don’t think so – the poll just has one option to show votes or not. I’m not sure if I can edit the poll options afterward, but I guess we can check easily enough.

  • Can we hide votes until they’re closed?
  • Let’s find out!
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The first full round of voting was a group stage, where you could vote for any two tracks out of the four. The reason for doing that was to avoid knocking out worthy tracks in the first round just because they happened to get paired up to a juggernaut. And I guess going to 1-of-4 would bring back that problem…

Hmm, I suppose we could do a truer sort of round robin by having the first round be numeric rating. Then we could say that the top rated track from each group advances, plus the top X rated tracks from the rest of the field. It gets away from the simplicity of just pitting a small number of tracks against each other, but might be fairer…

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Oh, I see. I misremembered that it was grouped into 2 separate pairs, not 4 with a choice of any 2.

I trust your judgment as to the best way to organize it! Just wondering how many of each of our nominees is likely to make it into the poll. I felt spoiled by having all 4 get in last time.

Of course, that depends on how many people participate.

Looks like the answer is no.

45%20PM

Oh no. Looks like someone thinks we might abuse our polling privileges! Well I don’t want to make this super hard for anyone.

I just thought it might be worthwhile to review the votes at the end instead of during.

I suppose we could just make the polls private vote if that’s what people are more comfortable with. The comments that arose from people commenting on the public votes have struck me as silly trash talk / banter in the spirit of the thread, but if anyone has felt uncomfortable or pressured because of them, just let me know (by PM if you’d rather remain anonymous), and I’ll turn them off for next time around.

And after some more thought, I’m leaning toward the numeric rating idea for the first round of voting, to strike the balance between cutting down to 32 in a reasonable amount of time and not eliminating anyone just because of unlucky seeding. Hopefully you can all be trusted not to game the system by giving 1s to everyone but your own entries.

The votes have to be public. Anyone who participates in the Thunderdome knows they do so at their own peril.

I agree with the open voting, though not so sure I agree with -changing- votes. But at any rate, it is what it is and I’m happy to have the Thunderdome.