I used to take ephedra a few years ago, and it was remarkably effective. I did research it quite a bit and based on the extremely meager information available decided that barring eating an entire sandwich of the stuff, it wasn’t going to be much more dangerous (if not less so) than, say, ibuprofen (I remember stumbling on some paper that claimed that ODing on aspirin, proportionally, compared to ODing on ephedra was actually way worse for your body).
After the knee-jerk ban and, apparently, unbanning (?), I’d like to look into it again. Since this is TEH INTARWEB I figured others here would have strong, hopefully informed opinions on the matter.
The propaganda I found basically came down into three categories:
[ul]
[li] fear mongering by pharmaceutical companies, weight loss companies*, and politicians
[/li][li] reports of questionable objectivity from supplement companies
[/li][li] sparse, outdated reports from various European studies that, on the surface, seem a lot more objective and less politically and financially motivated than anything us capitalist fucks would allow
[/li][/ul]
The gist I got, trying to take both opposing sides with a grain of salt, is that the shit works, and that it DOES have side effects, but those side effects are usually due to taking WAY too much of the stuff and then, say, having a pre-existing heart condition along with working out vigorously, without water, in 104 degree weather (sorry Korey, but goddamn, what were you thinking?)
Since I’m as likely to work out strenously as Bonnie Grape, I don’t think overexertion is going to be a huge issue.
But I figure there may be a few people who have studied more recent literature that isn’t just some post on the net about how this one time, some guys, found, like, lead covered dead baby rats in their bottle of ECA that they bought at this flea market one time with their cousin in Columbus.
I got in a pretty heated argument with a friend’s husband, who worked for Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers or someone like that, who about burst a vessel when I said I lost a lot of weight with ephedra. He was one notch below covering his ears and repeating “I CAN’T HEAR YOU I CAN’T HEAR YOU I CAN’T HEAR YOU”.
Information not filtered by the FDA, but beware the hippies.
Ehedra is a small scale amphetamine. Don’t go nuts and stress yourself while you’re on it and you should be fine. Eat handfulls of the stuff play basketballs for hours and your heart might explode.
If you don’t mind my asking, are you like seriously overwieght or something? Like more than 70lbs? Because if you’re not(and even if you are, really) I wouldn’t just turn my back on excercise as a solution. In fact, I’m just going to go ahead and suggest to everyone who doesn’t already have a membership to a gym to sign up like NOW.
One hour each day for like 3 days a week can make a dramatic difference if you stick with it, and it works towards benefits that don’t just wear off like the SPEED will. Seriously, BTG, the Atlanta area has plenty of fitness centers all over, and if you can afford to mail order crank from Cozumel I’m sure you could swing the $39/month Gold’s membership.
I don’t believe you can really do much with an hou,r 3 days a week, but I hear this sort of thing all the time. It’s just bogus.
You need an hour a day, 7 days a week to make a difference. Otherwise it’s not going to make any difference.
Of course, 3 days a week and no difference is probably better for your body than doing nothing. And probably 10x better than doing speed, but those are other points.
Diet is WAY more important than exercise. That’s just reality – you can consume more calories in 10 minutes than you can burn off in 4 hours, and this mythical “raising your metabolism” thing doesn’t really help. I’m all for exercise, but I have WAY too many friends that basically work out 3 times a week and then eat like crap and wonder why they don’t lose weight.
I’m probably 40-50 pounds past my ideal weight, and 30 pounds away from what I consider acceptable. Low carb works for me, but in a family situation it’s incredibly hard to maintain a strict diet when the rest of the family can’t, won’t, or doesn’t buy into it.
As I explain to my family, “Yes, I’m weak, but at least I admit it and would prefer to work around it than test myself constantly”. Living at my house is like being an alcoholic sleeping in a bar and with the bartender yelling at you for being a wuss for not resisting.
So…what about this hoodia crap that’s sprung up the past couple years? Anyone here have experience?
Not really. If I’m running at an average pace of a 9 minute mile for an hour, I’ve burned a whopping 1000 calories or so, or less than a Big Mac, large coke, and fries.
So, again, diet pretty much trumps exercise when it comes to weight loss.
Assuming that you make no changes to your lifestyle, and that you were at a steady weight beforehand, an extra 1000 calories burned three times a week will take off about a pound a week. Of course, anybody who takes their exercise seriously enough that they do it three times a week for an hour is going to make the necessary lifestyle changes to support that exercise.
So, again, diet pretty much trumps exercise when it comes to weight loss.
I’d say it’s the other way around actually. It’s far easier to exercise and eat the same amount than it is to put yourself on a diet that reduces your food intake below the equilibrium point.
Well, that’s a complicated question. The short answer is: mostly. There are two factors here, the first is whether your resting metabolism rate is affected (studies have shown that it does, but this really accounts for anywhere from like 200 calories a day extra burned passively at MOST). You will also potentially have an elevated RMR for some duration (few hours to a day or two) after strenuous exercise, but that has to be REAL strenuous and for an extended period of time (closer to two hours than one).
The other is that if you work out a lot, you tend to be leaner, and muscle will burn more calories just existing than fat will.
So, ironically, not being fat helps you stay not being fat.
But there’s a flip side. There’s evidence that if you work out a lot and don’t eat much, your body’s metabolism actually slows down because it’s panicking and thinking that you’re starving. Whether this happens depends on a lot of factors, but it seems that if you have a negative caloric intake that it will often trigger this slow down. Unfortunately people who are dieting and working out are very often looking for a negative balance, so by doing what’s necessary to lose weight you end up making it harder (but again, honestly, not by much – your RMR just isn’t that big a source of calorie burn).
Basically, the notion that “working out increases your metabolism so you can keep eating like crap” is pretty much bullshit. If you want to lose weight, you watch your caloric intake, period. That said, to be healthy you’ll still want to exercise regularly.
Unfortunately the American food industry is pretty much slanted against being anything but fucking obese. Pretty much any drink served at a restaurant that isn’t water will be laced with sugar, corn syrup, caffeine, phosphoric acid, or all of that above. And they actively push this on you – “Are you sure you don’t want a combo for only fifty cents more?!”
And now we have this whole generation of kids that “don’t like the taste of water”. I mean, Jesus, I fucking want to nuke Coca Cola’s headquarters every time I hear that shit. As a parent it’s about goddamned impossible to make sure my kids eat healthy short of paying a lot of money for fresh products and cooking it myself every night.
There are basically three things destroying American health today, and it’s all food: processed grains; high fructose corn syrup; and trans-fats. Health costs would drop dramatically – probably a lot more so than if nicotine was abolished – if those were just destroyed.
Seriously, go get the ingredients for a burger and make a burger some time. That home made burger probably just cost you like $2-3 in ingredients right there. How do places like McDonalds manage to get their COGS down to jack shit? It sure as shit isn’t just because of “volume” – they’re buying about the crappiest ingredients they can legally get away with.
Cool, so running thirty fucking kilometers a week will drop a pound each week, assuming I don’t fuck up and suck down a milkshake one time during that week? Yeah, that’s a winning proposition.
I guess it depends on the person, but I would argue that “not doing something” is significantly easier than “doing something”. Exercise is active and requires time and effort to do. Not eating like shit is something you can do every time you choose to eat.
I lost 50 lbs in 9 months doing just what I suggested, but hey, everyone is different. It’s still a worthwhile habit to get into. Find a friend, co-worker or family member who has a similar interrest in getting into shape and get them to join with you; the hardest part about sticking with the fitness thing is going it alone. Someone there to push you can be the difference.
As far as diet goes, maybe cut back on the crap a little? Drink water when you’re thirsty, or if you absolutely have to have a soda, get something caffine-free. If you’re prone to snacking on stuff like chips or candy bars, consider pretzels or even beef jerky. I specifically mention those two items because they massage that same primal urge to ingest salty crap without piling up on the carbs and calories, while also being tasty.
But diet alone won’t solve everything. That’s why there’s a million diets out there(and none of them work), everyone’s looking for a lazier way to drop some pounds. You have to exercise along with eating sensibly if you really want to burn more calories than you take in. And you’ll burn more calories than you think with regular exercise, part of it is conditioning your body to be more efficient.
You sound like me a year ago, BTG. I would justify not excercising by telling myself all I had to do was eat less, or less crap, or even try some suppliments(I did the Metabolife thing). Fuck all that, dude. The hard way pays dividends, and biting the bullet and earning it is its own reward. If you’re anything like me you’ve probably tried the workout thing on a few different occasions and never stuck with it, probably because there were no tangible results on an acceptable timetable. I really don’t know what to tell you other than it’s going to take time and discipline. Pay special attention to that second part if you’re insisting on going the Ephedrine route.
How so? The buns cost you $3-4 CDN per dozen. The meat costs you $5 CDN per pound (Enough for if you buy lean ground beef. If you buy house brand cheddar cheese that’s you’re looking at $7 CDN for about 4 pounds. Your costs per burger are in the neighbourhood of $1.50 CDN ($1.25 US) each. Add two cans of green or yellow wax beans, or a third of a bag of frozen peas and you’ve got a meal that will feed 4 people for well under $20.
It’s a myth that eating healthy costs more. Eating healthy food that you cook yourself will almost always cost less than any other kind of meal. You can buy a bag of carrots that will easily feed a single person for a half-dozen meals for less than $10. Buying a footlong sub at Subway might cost you $8, but two sandwiches and two apples is less than half that, and is more filling.
True if you insist on eating absolute shit, yeah. But in general it’s not the weight that kills you, it’s the lack of cardiovascular fitness.
As for 3 hours/week not being enough to do stuff, it won’t be a speed race to become a toothpick, but if you cross-train it sure will make a difference. Quit thinking about spending an hour running on a treadmill, and consider spending 10-15 minutes on a treadmill and the other 45 lifting free weights. The muscle building will kick in after a couple of weeks and that will raise your resting metabolism because lean muscle requires more upkeep. Additionally, working that lean muscle (to the same degree of fatigue) burns more calories. This is how people with professional trainers manage to get into shape.
It’s also a lot tougher than people make it out to be. A lot of the reason most people fail to lose weight when exercising is because they don’t really push themselves hard enough. The only times exercise programs have really worked for me I distinctly recall feeling like I was going to keel over at the end of the workouts. When lifting that meant that it was challenging to stay upright through the shower afterwards because parts of me were that tired. (It gets better as you do it more and build your endurance, but the first couple of weeks suck!) So you have to really care about doing it.
A pound a week is 52 pounds in a year. A person who is grossly obese can lose that much in 6 months if they decide to start exercising and eat properly. Without the exercise, they aren’t likely to have made enough changes to their lifestyle to stick with any particular diet.
I guess it depends on the person, but I would argue that “not doing something” is significantly easier than “doing something”. Exercise is active and requires time and effort to do. Not eating like shit is something you can do every time you choose to eat.
Exercising allows you to lose weight while still allowing you to eat to the point that you aren’t hungry. If you don’t exercise, then you’ll just be going on a starvation diet that doesn’t work long term.
The OD comparisons mean precisely jack shit, incidentally. But yeah, as long as you don’t huff them like Sweet-Tarts or incorrectly rationalize that the more you take, the more weight you’ll lose, you’ll be fine. And if you have a rare congenital cardiac defect, you might be risking something serious. Or not, exactly, because who knows how many people do have congenital cardiovascular defects that take ephedra and never suffer ill effects? There’s no way to tell since they don’t, you know, die from it. All you need to do is watch yourself, be aware of what your heart and body are up to (don’t take any until you’ve been working out for at least a month, 3-4 days a week minimum, and stop exercising immediately if you feel lightheaded or dizzy), and work yourself up slowy in dosage (ignore the label; start with the smallest dose, 1 pill, and increase by 1 pill as needed, no sooner than one more pill a week, assuming again 3-4 workouts a week). Don’t be afraid to call it a day way early if you feel funky. You should never feel dizzy or nauseous when working out (legs partially excepted, of course).
And only take it when you are doing a fat-burning/cardio workout. It’s counterproductive (and more dangerous) to take it when you’re pounding out the hefty reps during a bulking phase. Also, it’s safer (and more cost-effective) to cease intake for awhile, remembering to essentially start over with the dosage ladder when you start up again.
After the knee-jerk ban and, apparently, unbanning (?), I’d like to look into it again. Since this is TEH INTARWEB I figured others here would have strong, hopefully informed opinions on the matter.
There is, to this date, no substance as effective as ephedra (or any amphetamine, but ephedra is the safest and least rhabdomyelytic - that is, it’s the least likely to promote muscle as well as fat breakdown) in not just promoting thermogenic fat metabolism but in actually resetting the body’s homeostatic weight point, such that rebound weight gain is (if proper diet and maintenance exercise are kept up) at a surprising minimum - especially when considering the potential for rapid weight loss that a rigorous program supplemented with ephedra can precipitate.
I speak from personal experience. I weighed in around 230 or so (at around 6 feet) by the dawn of 2002. By Memorial Day, I was 180-185. Now, I’m not sure my results are entirely typical. I ceased all drinking of soda and alcohol. Speaking of drinking, you gotta drink gallons of water. Ephedra has some significant diuretic effects, plus it’s a potent bronchodilator and will easily dry your mucous membranes up a bit, so you’ll want to watch your hydration (another reason dim fatties bite the dust on the stuff). I stopped eating shit like white bread, sweets and assorted other crap that everyone knows isn’t good for you. I didn’t go ballistic beyond that - fruitcakes who tell you how bad Gatorade is for you, because it has some sugars in it and GAWSP carbs can take a leap. You better take some carbs in Mister, or you’re gonna bonk on the elliptical and look like a puss. I went into the gym in the afternoon and did about 45 minutes of free weights and machines and a 15-minute round on the elliptical. Then I came back around 9PM and did another 30 on the elliptical. I went 3 on, one off with maybe 1 or 2 deviations in my schedule. I dunno if I could ever do that again, it wasn’t easy. I just thought of everything and everyone ever that pissed me off or made me feel like shit (I had a nice long list), and turned it into anger and then energy. The only supplements I used were protein shakes (1 scoop instead of the recommended 2 - see, these workout supplements write their instructions for big dumb lunkheads twice your size, so the dosages are monstro) like right after the workout (bombing that into your already shrunken stomach will keep you full until dinnertime), protein bars, creatine (during bulking periods) and Ripped Fuel (during fat burns). I did 2-3 months of bulking, 2-3 months of burning with a month in between to cycle from the low-rep, high weight bulking workouts to the high-rep, low weight burns. And lemme tell you, you know it’s working when you get a fucking hunger going in your body like you’ve never felt before. It’s not an Oh Shit I Missed Lunch And It’s Like 6PM ARRGRGRHH hunger, which is basic and obvious. It’s this crazy NO AMOUNT OF FUCKING FOOD WILL STOP THIS URGE. See, it’s not an ache like an empty stomach, it’s a full-body side effect of your body going into full-scale body reserve metabolism. Master your control over that hunger, and you win.
And guess what? Nothing helps curb that hunger like ephedra! Plus, when you’re really grooving in the gym and your bod has got its grip on the whole workout thing and the Ripped Fuel, you’ll get this silly rush and your muscles will buzz and you’ll feel like running up a fucking mountain. Are you in shape at that point? Yes, my friend, you are.
The propaganda I found basically came down into three categories:
fear mongering by pharmaceutical companies, weight loss companies*, and politicians
reports of questionable objectivity from supplement companies
sparse, outdated reports from various European studies that, on the surface, seem a lot more objective and less politically and financially motivated than anything us capitalist fucks would allow
The gist I got, trying to take both opposing sides with a grain of salt, is that the shit works, and that it DOES have side effects, but those side effects are usually due to taking WAY too much of the stuff and then, say, having a pre-existing heart condition along with working out vigorously, without water, in 104 degree weather (sorry Korey, but goddamn, what were you thinking?)
Yeah. Although, not all of that mudslinging was in error. There was a big problem with dosage labeling. Like, some companies put the gram weight of the actual (somewhat estimated) concentration of ephedra derived from the Ma Huang extract, while others just weighed the whole extract (or, sometimes the fucking whole plant), so you got some silly variation for your 25mg recommended dose, you know? That’s why I went with Twinlabs’ Ripped Fuel, I figured a high-profile op like them wasn’t likely to screw around with the dosages (and they reported actual ephedra concentration).
Since I’m as likely to work out strenously as Bonnie Grape, I don’t think overexertion is going to be a huge issue.
Then why the fuck are you going to use ephedra, B? It’s not gonna do you much good if you’re not down to get sweaty, Teddy.
Well, hopefully he’s doing both. Using ephedra like Trimspa for just its appetite control properties is stupid. Use Trimspa, then.
As safe as playing pickup B-ball on a hot summer afternoon. Be careful and it’s groovy; play the fool and get torched. It’s exercise, it’s supposed to stress the body, you know?
Yeah, but that means about as much as sitting outside on that same hot summer day.
Cool, so running thirty fucking kilometers a week will drop a pound each week, assuming I don’t fuck up and suck down a milkshake one time during that week? Yeah, that’s a winning proposition.
I guess it depends on the person, but I would argue that “not doing something” is significantly easier than “doing something”. Exercise is active and requires time and effort to do. Not eating like shit is something you can do every time you choose to eat.[/quote]
Are you seriously talking about taking ephedra and not working out? Are you seriously talking about weight loss and NOT WORKING OUT? There are like an eleventy-million (still) fat secretaries who think like you do. The best you’ll manage is that easy first 10, Bud. Which you’ll gain back in about 2 seconds. I thought you were intelligent. Modding your diet is groovy and I applaud your intentions and all, but you’re gonna be fat for-fucking-ever if you don’t figure in some kind of physical exertion, and a 20-minute round on the shitter doesn’t count. You’re fucking kidding yourself, B.
Ignore every goddamned thing I wrote up there, dude. It’s not for you. Neither is ephedra. Ephedra got banned in the first place from dudes like you taking it.
Dance Dance Ephedra Revolution should solve all your needs.
I thought the reason they pulled ephedra the first time was because people were cooking it into meth. Isn’t the deal with Eph-b that it doesn’t power up to meth, so they can sell it again? The labs moved on to using pseudafed or something if the 11:00 news is to be believed.
