What? Starting early last year, I lost forty pounds in less than six months with diet alone. It’s back on now, but still mang.
Bill, where do you buy your Twinlabs’ Ripped Fuel from?
Yeah.
Yeah.[/quote]
It stayed off for a year, bro, and it took a lot of pizzas and brownies to bring it back. Nothing against exercise, I think it’s an important factor, but it’s far from impossible to lose a large amount of weight through diet alone.
“Did,” you mean. Unless you find some lunchbox who hoarded the stuff and is peddling it on eBay, good luck finding it anywhere. The negative press was enough for Twinlabs to beg off from re-introducing ephedra in their products anytime soon, if ever. They market an ephedra/Ma Huang-free Ripped Fuel, but it’s a gigantic pile of useless shit IMO.
ECA “Stackers,” though - those are finding their way back into commercial view, but even they are hard to find and forget about any of the larger companies. Lots of people swear by them though, and I personally know of no concrete evidence that they are any more risky to take than any other ephedra-containing supplement. I have never used them, because I was leery of the “A” - aspirin - in them, due to it’s blood-thinning and vasoconstrictive effects (again, I have nothing besides a vague unease about introducing too many cardioactive substances in a workout supplement, and ephedra and caffeine were enough for me).
I haven’t bought Ripped Fuel in a long while - I knew back when Fen Phen (which, in addition to fenfluramine and phentermine, contained Mormon Tea, AKA Ephedra trifurca) took a header that Ripped Fuel and its ilk had numbered days, so I hoarded it and prepared for the inevitable. I don’t much need it anymore, since I’m no longer in need of an aggressive weight loss regimen. Hell, I’d send a bottle out to you, but they’re technically expired and I wouldn’t feel comfortable sending you expired, old-ass Ripped Fuel.
If it’s back on, did you really lose it? Excercise would’ve helped to keep it off. Sure, the diet helps, but YOU NEED BOTH.
What is it about the exercise that’s unworkable for you guys? It’s something you’re supposed to do anyways.
I wouldn’t be back on if I kept eating right.
I wouldn’t be back on if I kept eating right.[/quote]
Well it sounds like you have all the answers. Good luck!
Bill, since you’d actually know, what’s the current state of FDA regulation, clinical trials, and safety whatnot on Ephedra? Or is it still in “dietary supplemant” limbo?
Last May the courts ruled that there was not enough evidence to uphold the FDA’s ban (I’d like to mention that the ban itself was simply a cautionary measure to allow for the investigation and courts to do their thing), so it was repealed. Part of the deal is that ephedra was not banned across the board, since it and its biomolecular brethren are found in Sudafed, hot tea (which contains theophylline, quite structurally similar to the other amphetamines), antiasthmatics (all because of the potent bronchodilating effects of ephedra and similar amphetamines) and such. So, it has demonstrable therapeutic worth and as such, it seems fruity to just ban it for supplemental usage out of hand. And, legally speaking, ephedra isn’t technically a drug.
See, back in 1994, the FDA passed the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), which amended the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938 to change how dietary supplements are regulated and labeled. Under the DSHEA, dietary supplements were classified as foods and not drugs. So, even though ephedra is obviously a compound one would rationalize is a drug, just like any amphetamine, since it’s in a supplement and is actually a natural substance found in the Ma Huang plant, the DSHEA sez it’s a food, just like protein powder or other more “food-like” supplements. If it’s in GNC and you can eat it, it’s a food according to the FDA. And banning food is, well, have you ever heard of such a thing? Not so much, unless it’s like a Bald Eagle burger or something. See the main diff is, if it’s a drug, the company must prove it’s safe, whereas if it’s a food, the FDA has to prove it’s harmful. It’s all about who has the burden of proof. But, IMO it wouldn’t have mattered (more in a sec).
The ban was challenged by Utah-based Nutraceutical Corporation. They make an ephedra product with less than 10 mg of ephedra. The judge ruled, in accordance with the DSHEA, the FDA could not place the burden to prove safety on dietary supplement manufacturers as it does for drug and device makers. The FDA had to prove “unreasonable risk” and it couldn’t with low doses of ephedra. So, the ban gets lifted, but per-pill/dose concentrations get taken down a peg to 10mg (one pill of Ripped Fuel contained 25mg, incidentally, but as I’ve said, tolerance develops fairly quickly, another reason ephedra is fairly safe).
What was the trump card? Statistics, natch. Although some media quote the number of deaths due to ephedra at 155, an FDA-commissioned report in 2003 stated in its final ruling that only five deaths could be attributed directly to ephedra. One of those, Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler, who dies from cardiac arrest during spring training in 2003 - but Bechler had a history of borderline high blood pressure and abnormal liver and a family history of heart disease.
To put this number in perspective, about 12 to 17 million people consumed ephedra in 1999, reports the American Herbal Products Association. The Nutrition Business Journal estimated that sales of ephedra in 2002 were $1.25 billion. Even the scare stats (155) are silly low but the actual, 5 out of the most modest estimate you can make, 10 million, is ridiculously low. The courts looked over those numbers and I assume it took about a picosecond to strike down the ban. I’ll reiterate that the ban was precautionary - the FDA has no grudge against ephedra.
This ruling has no veto effect on sports leagues. AFAIK, the NFL, MLB and NCAA still forbid its use. I doubt the MLB would have bothered but for Bechler’s death - really, his death was big factor in the ban.
Also, because of the bad press, big companies are loathe to re-introduce it (in case the FDA proves at some point it’s too dangerous). I mean, I doubt its sales would pick up right where they left off back in '03-04, you know?
You can be skinny and unhealthy just as much as you can be fat and unhealthy. If your goal is “losing weight, not doing excercise, and eating shit”, then by all means use ephedra or the like. If you actually want to get in shape, you have to eat right AND excercise. But it seems your goal is to just drop pounds using the least amount of effort possible, so does it really matter how unhealthy ephedra or hoodia is?
Jesus Fuck, at what point did I say any of this shit? If you guys reread this thread, I’m the one railing about how shitty food is in modern society. I don’t drink coke or caffeinated beverages, I generally just drink water with my meals. I don’t eat McDonalds all day long.
A couple comments of mine have been misinterpreted, rather aggressively. The first is my assertion that diet is easier than exercise because it’s a passive thing. I think that’s a given – not doing something (eating like shit) is easier than doing somethign (exercising), and the former is also a lot easier to stick to than an exercise regiment where scheduling, sickness, work, travel, etc. can get in the way.
The second is that I made the statement that I’m unlikely to strenuously work out that much. Given comments that I’d, you know, be alright if I ran 30 fucking kilometers a week, well, hopefully that puts things in context. I work out four times a week, lightly, with aikido. That puts me well above the average, but it sure as shit still isn’t running a marathon every week, nor do I think is it rational to expect a working guy with a family to be able to do that.
Finally, and this is for Bill, but I was always under the impression that ephedra and working out were a bad combination, specifically because of its thermogenic properties. Working out and using ephedra lead to overheating, or so I was led to believe, so all the directions I saw for ephedra were recommending its use except when working out. Maybe I misread all the labels and warnings, but your statements that it should be taken when actively exercising were the first time I said that.
I’m not quite sure where people got the impression that I currently eat like shit and want to keep doing that. I’ve stated that sticking to a diet free of HFCS, processed grains, and trans-fats is fairly difficult when trying to appease the palates of an entire family instead of That One Guy That Wants To Lose Weight. Asking an entire family to give up starches (including rice and bread), anything with corn syrup (ketchup, bbq sauce, salad dressings), etc. is pretty difficult.
If I was a bachelor I’d be set, because I could cook for just me, and I’m a pretty goddamned good cook. And I’m more than happy surviving off three core vegetables that everyone else I know would be sick of within a week.
If I was a bachelor I’d be set, because I could cook for just me, and I’m a pretty goddamned good cook.
Thats no shit either. What the fuck is up with women?
If you want to lose weight Bacon is right; just changing his diet will do that.
The best way to lose fat is to combine anaerobic and aerobic exercise along with a moderate decrease in caloric consumption. Cut your calories to 70% of what you’re taking in now, which if you a lot of trash food should be fairly easy. Add in some moderate aerobic exercise, preferably something you find enjoyable like a sports perhaps and throw in a circuit at the gym a few times a week is your easiest choice, or even go for a brisk walk with your wife or friends each night. Any exercise is better than none. Sure it’s not the quickest way to lose weight, but give it time and it works just as well as the other ways, especially if you stick to it since it’s a less drastic change.
I don’t know what your eating habits are like, but it’s a lot easier to watch what you eat if you eat a lot of small meals and snacks through the day then a few large ones, and you find you don’t feel hungry this way.
If i remember right, 3500 calories = 1lb of fat. So say you lose 1000 calories a week from doing some moderate aerobic activity. I.e. Walking you burn calorise at the following rates:
Calories per 10 min : 3 mph - 50; 4 mph - 60; 5mph - 95; 5.5 mph - 110.
So if you walk lets say at 4mph for 30 minutes mon-friday, there’s 900 calories lost. Add in the fact you reduced your calorie intake by probably 3-400 calories per day, (just from not eating trash food a la McD’s etc…) and in a year you’ll lose at worst 45 pounds. Throw some light strength training in there to build some muscle and there’s at least another 15 lbs lost over a year(and you’ll look better too ;P). And all that for 4 hours total a week of exercise and eating a bit healthier. Not bad eh?
*Assuming of course that right now your daily caloric intake is stable so that you’re not actually gaining weight, otherwise you’ll lose less.
**Or disregard this post as I just read your last one. My bad ;P
Granted, but if you’re not eating like shit, you’re either eating healthy (which has a proactive component, since it’s not as easy to eat healthy as unhealthy, and it’s not all that easy to stick to either, like working out). I’ll add that all those same distractors can figure into proper diet control.
The second is that I made the statement that I’m unlikely to strenuously work out that much. Given comments that I’d, you know, be alright if I ran 30 fucking kilometers a week, well, hopefully that puts things in context. I work out four times a week, lightly, with aikido. That puts me well above the average, but it sure as shit still isn’t running a marathon every week, nor do I think is it rational to expect a working guy with a family to be able to do that.
There’s a compromise in there between the two, yeah? You’ve already slotted the time, try something more intensive vis a vis cardio, maybe.
Finally, and this is for Bill, but I was always under the impression that ephedra and working out were a bad combination, specifically because of its thermogenic properties. Working out and using ephedra lead to overheating, or so I was led to believe, so all the directions I saw for ephedra were recommending its use except when working out. Maybe I misread all the labels and warnings, but your statements that it should be taken when actively exercising were the first time I said that.
You were reading labels for an ephedra product meant for appetite control, that’s why the label read that way. No offense to you personally, but companies that put out ephedra-based anoretics figure their target audience is, well, significantly overweight people who probably don’t exercise regularly, nor have been working out regularly. Simply put: they’re covering their ass. “Working out and ephedra” use in concert does not lead to “overheating” out of hand. You may as well discard the thermogenic effects of ephedra if you don’t workout after taking them - all you’re really getting is the appetite suppressive effects. Like I’ve been saying, it’s like standing outside on a hot day (less so, really). You just need to keep your hydration in check - which you should be doing while exercising regardless.
Trust me, the labels on Hydroxy-cut and Ripped Fuel tell you in no uncertain terms that, for optimum use, take shortly before exercising (for the thermogenics) and also later in the evening (to control wolfing down a big dinner, a weight/fat loss no-no).
If you want to lose weight quicker, healthier, and more permanently, adding an exercise regimen is vital.
The best way to lose fat is to combine anaerobic and aerobic exercise along with a moderate decrease in caloric consumption. Cut your calories to 70% of what you’re taking in now, which if you a lot of trash food should be fairly easy. Add in some moderate aerobic exercise, preferably something you find enjoyable like a sports perhaps and throw in a circuit at the gym a few times a week is your easiest choice, or even go for a brisk walk with your wife or friends each night. Any exercise is better than none. Sure it’s not the quickest way to lose weight, but give it time and it works just as well as the other ways, especially if you stick to it since it’s a less drastic change.
Okay. Well, you just said all anyone has to do is diet, and now you’re on the exercise tip. Which is it? Also, a 70% decrease in caloric intake isn’t “moderate.” Also, you’re being very bland in your explanations. Knocking out simple/empty calories is primo, but you need caloric intake (as well as carb) if you’re going to hit the gym at all. The rest of your paragraph here is a mess of contradictions. It’s “easy” to hit the gym all week and play a sport? Or, equivalently, walk around the block? It’s not quick but it works just as well? None of that jibes very well, Mano.
I don’t know what your eating habits are like, but it’s a lot easier to watch what you eat if you eat a lot of small meals and snacks through the day then a few large ones, and you find you don’t feel hungry this way.
If i remember right, 3500 calories = 1lb of fat. So say you lose 1000 calories a week from doing some moderate aerobic activity. I.e. Walking you burn calorise at the following rates:
Calories per 10 min : 3 mph - 50; 4 mph - 60; 5mph - 95; 5.5 mph - 110.
So if you walk lets say at 4mph for 30 minutes mon-friday, there’s 900 calories lost. Add in the fact you reduced your calorie intake by probably 3-400 calories per day, (just from not eating trash food a la McD’s etc…) and in a year you’ll lose at worst 45 pounds. Throw some light strength training in there to build some muscle and there’s at least another 15 lbs lost over a year(and you’ll look better too ;P). And all that for 4 hours total a week of exercise and eating a bit healthier. Not bad eh?
You’re not entirely incorrect, but I’d advise everyone against doing that calorie math bullshit. It’s biophysically-speaking aload of donkey cunt. Forget that shit. Try this:
- If you know it’s bad, don’t eat it.
- Medium-sizes are your friend.
- Close the maw after 7PM for all but fluids. Good fluids.
- Workout 3-4 days a week, half-hour cardio, half-hour weights/machines (with a weight that you can do 12-15 reps with). For cardio, work at a comfortable pace until you sweat. Then, keep working out for 20-30 minutes from the moment you break a sweat, because that’s when you’re on the cardio/fatburn clock. No breaks during that period. You can slow down to no less than 1/2 speed if necessary, but no stopping. Ignore the fucking calorie counter on the machine.
- Tell no one you don’t have to that you’re working out. No fishing for compliments. Fat loss occurs last in the face and extremities. Only you will notice the waistline at first, but when people start to comment spuriously, that means you’ve lost it in your face and that means you’ve done good. If 6-8 months go by and nothing from anyone - you’re doing something wrong.
Bill, in case you’re curious, here’s some more history on DSHEA:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0109.mencimer2.html
It’s rather annoying there’s still no official trials, but oh well.
Bill, he wasn’t saying a 70% decrease in caloric intake, he was saying a decrease to 70% of what you were taking in (that is, a 30% decrease).
You may or may not still feel that’s moderate, but at least you’d be attacking the actual statement. :)
OK, this one is troublesome, since I don’t even leave work until after 7pm. I keep hearing that you shouldn’t eat after 8pm blah blah. I am assuming that really you shouldn’t eat n hours before going to sleep. Is this correct? If I don’t go to sleep until 1am, then eating dinner before 7pm is pretty tough.
DSHEA!
He cuts like a knife
He won’t smirk and he won’t smile
DSHEA!
Get funky for a while.